"A Fat Rant"

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Kingswood, instead of using substitutions like "gene C" for the actual name of a gene, could you actually post the real name?

The point of the example was primarily mathematical, not scientific. The point was to demonstrate that genes could be combined in various ways. The example was intentionally simplified to prove a point and I expect that most people would understand this. I could have posted the real names of the genes involved, but to make a realistic example would have taken a few hours to do research to get the names right. If people want to find out more they can do their own research.

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

I'd also like to pick a point on someone being predisposed to something vs having a guarenteed outcome. Yes, there is a difference in metabolisms between people, but it's not the be-all-end-all determinator you make it out to be. If you happen to not be blessed with the ability to eat as much as you'd like and still maintain a healthy weight, then you have to make a choice between indulging yourself and keeping your weight under control. If obesity is actually genetic, then it must be approached with the same attitude as any other condition that is dangerous if it gets out of control such as diabetes.

I would like to pick a point of my own here. You are implying that everyone who is overweight has indulged themselves excessively. That is not true for everyone. There are overweight people who can gain weight on eating plans that would promote weight loss in normal people. There are also recognised syndromes in which obesity is a symptom, or the result of excessive appetite caused by hormonal deficiencies such as the inability to make the hormone leptin. To suggest that all overweight is the same is an erroneous simplification and you would do well to remember this.

I restate an earlier point of mine: If everyone ate a healthy diet in moderation and got enough exercise, there would still be fat people. For more information, do some research on metabolic disorders.

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

As for me, I'm on my diet really for one main reason, to look more physically attractive. It also helps greatly in my day-to-day comfort and mental alertness, but my biggest motivator for keeping myself on 1450 calories of vegan food a day is so that I look better both with my shirt on and without it. I am absolutly not ashamed to say so. With others, it's your lifestyle that I care about. I watch what you eat to make my judgements more then watching to see if your belly jiggles. But around the pool, I'd be lying to you if I said that I'm as physically attracted to overweight girls as I am to those with slim physiques. I'm also very attracted to high cheek bones and narrow faces, it's just my taste.

Other people's tastes are different. Some people would not mind you as you are now. But don't let that sap your motivation. Keep up the good work and I hope you achieve your goals.

By the way, I may be rather accepting of fat people - for example I prefer the fuller figure in women - but that does not mean I promote unhealthy eating habits. I like to see people eating fruit and vegetables every day, and I consider trans fats to be public enemy number one as far as a healthy diet is concerned.

[9th Engineer]

The point of the example was primarily mathematical, not scientific. The point was to demonstrate that genes could be combined in various ways. The example was intentionally simplified to prove a point and I expect that most people would understand this.

However, you first need to back up the implicit argument that the genes in question can behave in the manner you have presented them. Most people here have no knowledge of genetics, and if the information is as simple and well known as you claim it would be an easy search. Your point is absolutely a scientific one, since the crux of what you're saying is that these genes can be rearranged and separated from one another. This is not true of all genes, and this isn't a board where everyone can be expected to know that offhand.
If you make the statement, you back it up with real data. Otherwise anyone could simply make half-cocked claims, safe in the knowledge that we don't have multiple hours to devote to each thread.

There are overweight people who can gain weight on eating plans that would promote weight loss in normal people. There are also recognised syndromes in which obesity is a symptom, or the result of excessive appetite caused by hormonal deficiencies such as the inability to make the hormone leptin.

Yes, these disorders are out there, but not in 50% or more of the population. Hyperphagic disorders are not what make people just 'heavy', very often they must be institutionalized due to their weight. Prader-Willie's Syndrome is an example of one of these, occuring in 1 out of every 12,000 to 15,000 births.
If someone has a genetic disorder that does not allow them to eat a diet that would be healthy for a normal person, then they should tailor their diet to the extent of their illness just like a diabetic needs to alter their diet.
I am not saying that all overweight people are the same. In fact, I'm saying the exact opposite, that each person needs to eat according to themselves.
Food is just fuel, thankfully our society is starting to recognize it as that.

[Aliantha]

9th, I think you're missing the point.

Of course not 50% of the population has a predisposition to be overweight because of genetic issues.

I could be wrong, but I think the point is that if you throw everyone in together, how are you going to know who's fat because they're lazy or eat too much, and who has a genuine problem that's not easy to manage.

The issue really is that some people are prejudiced against people because they're too fat or too thin. It's wrong that people feel the need to judge others, particularly those they don't even know.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I could be wrong, but I think the point is that if you throw everyone in together, how are you going to know who's fat because they're lazy or eat too much, and who has a genuine problem that's not easy to manage.

Again, put this 'genetic disposition' into perspective. TheMercenary posted a picture of two kids. The kid in the background was once called grossly obese. Never before have people been so obese as the kid in the foreground. Genetics, et al has nothing to do with his grossly unhealthy physique. Furthermore, a kids as obese as in the background was rare. Today it is routine in any group of kids.

How much fatter does genetics make one? This was well reported years ago. If someone eats an extra packet of sugar every day - just one extra - then he would be as fat as one with the genetic 'fat' defect.

There is absolutely no way anyone can attribute massively overweight kids with anything but diet. How does 20 pounds overweight due to genetics account for so many people that are hundreds of pounds overweight?

Attributing any of this to genetics means ignoring perspective. Genetics would make one as overweight as the person who eats one extra sugar packet every day. Genetic disposition is blames where people ignore 'by how much'.

None of this is about judging people. The obesity is simply and nothing more than hard reality. Making excuses for it is rediculous.

[rachaelsbird1]

I quite enjoyed watching the fat rant. I thought she had some very good points, but the biggest point is being at a healthy weight is well, healthy, and if you are healthy (as in no heart problems or high cholesterol or high blood pressure, etc) but are still overweight, then it's not a big deal. The only person who it should be a big deal to is yourself, and that's only if you're not comfortable with the way you look. If you like the way you look and you are overweight, then that's awesome and damn everyone who tries to tell you that you need to lose weight. But if you are generally healthy but you do not like the way you look, then by all means, lose weight! If other overweight people are trying to make other overweight women feel better about themselves and give them higher self esteem, then that's great, but I don't think it's the smartest thing to do because it might send the wrong message to people that it's okay to be overweight. It's not okay to be overweight unless you're happy with it and you're healthy. If an overweight woman is not healthy and her bad health is being caused by her being overweight, that woman should not be told that it's okay to stay overweight. She shouldn't be bashed by any means, but if she has diabetes and her heart races walking up the steps to her apartment and once she gets into her apartment she takes her meds for her high blood pressure, and she's only 25, she should probably seriously consider losing weight and get it out of her head that it's is okay being overweight. I'm basically saying that if being overweight is causing health issues that could be cured by losing weight, then you should lose weight. Or if you're obviously sickened by your naked body in the mirror, then you should lose weight. Ultimately, it should be a choice that YOU make for YOURself, and should definitely under NO circumstances be dictated to you by society. It's okay to be overweight if it's okay with YOU. I kinda went all over the place on this one, and I hope it makes sense to people!!! Cheers!

:O)

By the way, I am overweight myself and struggle with it quite a bit, and I lost 60 pounds last year, went from 225 to 165, and that's all on a 5'1" frame. I want to lose 50 more pounds, and I want to do it for me, because I want to be thin and in good health. My mother is overweight and she developed diabetes because of it and takes heart and high blood pressure medication. I don't want to do that. I want to be thin so I can avoid those types of health issues, and I want to look good in what is my opinion of looking good. It is in my genes to be overweight (EVERYONE on my mother's side is) so I will probably struggle with it my whole life, and not to mention that I have had three children and gained quite a bit with each!! Pregnancy is a bitch for that!

[piercehawkeye45]

*filches at the wall of text*

By the first paragraph you said that you should tell someone of the health risks involved of being overweight, but the choice to be, or at least content with being, overweight is that person's personal choice, right?

That I agree with.