I need some help

[fargon]

What is the best power supply protection I can get? I'm confused. We live in an apartment so re-wireing is out of the question. when I ask some of the geeks I know I get a dozen different answers. is there a single outlet surge protector I can get, or is the power strip protector better? Some people say that I need an external ground. I need some help I will send you an autographed picture of my self for your help.

[dar512]

The first question is what kind of protection you need. Do you have frequent power outages? Do you suspect your power of fluctuating?

Most people get by on grounded outlets and a standard surge protector, but if you have power wierdness, then it's a whole other ball game.

You do need a grounded (three prong) outlet at minimum.

[jaguar]

The best would be a power-conditioning UPS, APC make rather nice ones.

[maffick]

I concur with jaguar, but would also mention if your outlet is incorrectly grounded or not grounded it may cause issues with the UPS (or if the polarization is mis-wired though that is less likely to cause a faut in the UPS).

[fargon]

My main concern is close lighting strikes we had one last summer that took out my TV and cable box. THX 4 all your help.

[dar512]

Then what you want is a good surge protector. Expect to pay $25-$50 for a good one. What to look for.

[busterb]

You might enjoy this thread which has TMI. http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=9268

[tw]

Originally Posted by fargon

What is the best power supply protection I can get? I'm confused. We live in an apartment so re-wireing is out of the question.

A standard 'computer grade' UPS does nothing to condition or 'clean' electricity. UPS in battery backup mode connects a computer directly to AC mains. Any AC electric transient gets connected directly into the computer. But no problem. Computers already have effective protection that might be attached to its power cord. That protection assumes you have purchased a 'responsible' power supply. Many clone computers 'forget' to install that essential internal protection to sell their inferior product only on price. Grossly overpriced plug-in protectors forget to mention that effective protection is already inside that computer.

Plug-in protectors also forget to mention that an adjacent protector provides typically destructive transients with more paths into and through a computer. Yes, even demonstrated how a plug-in protector adjacent to a computer damaged that computer and others in the network by replacing every damaged IC. Traces the electrical transient by replacing each damaged IC in a path that passes right through the plug-in protector.

How good is that internal computer protection? Look at an output when UPS is in battery backup mode. That modified sine wave is a 270 volt spike surrounded by 200 volt square waves. IOW 'dirtiest' power is from this UPS when in battery backup mode (which is why UPS manufacturers recommend *not* plugging a power strip protector into a UPS output). But those UPS created transients are no problem because a computer already has effective internal protection.

Provided in the "Power Squid" discussion was another damning plug-in protector problem:
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Art...Protectors.pdf
This ignored problem was ignored is but another reason why a power cord protector is not effective.

The UPS is for data protection from blackouts and brownouts. It claims hardware transient protection. Then forgets to mention 1) hardware protection is from transients that don't typically exist, and 2) it does not claim to protect from transients that typically damage electronics. Again, a plug-in UPS is only for data protection.

Appliances have internal protection that assumes building earths destructive transients. So what do plug-in UPSes and power strip protectors completely avoid mentioning? Earth ground. Why? Ineffective protectors are sold mostly on myths. They avoid the most essential component of a protection 'system' - earth ground.

Unfortunately, a protector is nothing more than a connection to protection - earth ground. That means a protector must be part of a building's wiring AND the building's earth ground must both meet and exceed post 1990 code requirements. So what is an apartment dweller to do? A kludge solution starts by locating a three prong wall receptacle closest to incoming utility power. (If the apartment only has two prong plugs, then the only alternative is to buy an effective solution and get the landlord to install it.) Then buy a protector with highest joules rating. Cut its power cord as short as possible and plug it into that wall receptacle. Then verify computer is powered from same phase. Computer is best connected to a wall receptacle as far as possible from incoming power (increased wire length between protector and computer increases protection).

Hopefully the building has a minimally sufficient earth ground AND that AC electric is grounded to same earthing used by a telephone line protector (provided free by telephone provider). If using cable, then hope that cable is also earthed to AC electric before entering the building. Notice what defines electronics protection - earth ground. A protector is nothing more than a temporary connection to protection - earth ground. A fact avoided by protectors that also don't claim effective protection - ie plug-in UPSes and power strips. Why discuss a technical fact that will only destroy sales?

One final point. Effective protectors have manufacturer names such as Square D, GE, Leviton, Intermatic, Siemens, and Cutler-Hammer. APC, Tripplite, and Belkin are most definitely not on the 'responsible' list. But those latter and ineffective products are recommended without first asking a simple question, "What do they do?" It is irresponsible to recommend APC products for surge protection. They do one thing well. Battery backup power is only for data protection; not for hardware protection.

[tw]

Originally Posted by dar512

Then what you want is a good surge protector. Expect to pay $25-$50 for a good one. What to look for.

How to identify an ineffective protector: 1) Protector has no dedicated connection to earth ground, and 2) Manufacturer avoids discussing earth ground. Plug-in protectors from APC, Belkin, and Tripplite violate both points.

Principles used by effective protectors were demonstrated by Ben Franklin. Same reason why commerical radio stations are routinely struck by lightning and don't fail. Same reason why emergecy response center operators need not remove headsets and leave the room during every thunderstorm.

Two factors that determine protection quality. 1) Earthing determines how a 'system' protects during each transient. 2) Joules determines protector life expectancy over many transients. Effective protection means a human never even knows the transient existed. "How to Choose a Surge Protector" only mentions joules and does not discuss the most critical protection component - earthing.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by tw

It is irresponsible to recommend APC products for surge protection. They do one thing well. Battery backup power is only for data protection; not for hardware protection.

I admit I have no real technical knowledge in this area. However, my house has wildly fluctuating power problems, and in the first six months of living here, we fried three motherboards--on three different computers, the second two with expensive surge protectors and top-of-the-line power supplies after we realized there was a problem--simply by having them on when the lights flickered.

We purchased an APC brand UPS, and have not had another problem in the two years since. Like I said, purely anecdotal. No proof that the UPS is truly what solved the problem. But you also clearly have an axe to grind about the quality of power supplies.

[pumba55]

Originally Posted by fargon

What is the best power supply protection I can get? I'm confused. We live in an apartment so re-wireing is out of the question. when I ask some of the geeks I know I get a dozen different answers. is there a single outlet surge protector I can get, or is the power strip protector better? Some people say that I need an external ground. I need some help I will send you an autographed picture of my self for your help.

Get yourself a small UPS unit. APC is a good brand but any will do. It will protect against any electrical surges and provide enough power for you to properly turnoff your computer...

[maffick]

Well now, I can't understand why everyone dislikes APC so much? At work I have a Silcon that we are replacing with an infrastucture (much more scalable) . Granted, the Silcon is the size of a small shed, and the new infrastucture is 4 full size racks with an 80amp 440 wired directly into it (the building is 3 phase). Now sure this is way more than you need but APC makes very nice conditioning and battery backup in one units for just a single workstation. They range from 60-100$. I highly recommend them, and I wonder why folks are badmouthing them.

the Back-UPS ES 500 for example is 60$ and it *is* also a power conditioner....

[fargon]

Thanks guys I think my boss and I can now make an informed desision.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I admit I have no real technical knowledge in this area. However, my house has wildly fluctuating power problems, and in the first six months of living here, we fried three motherboards--on three different computers, the second two with expensive surge protectors and top-of-the-line power supplies after we realized there was a problem--simply by having them on when the lights flickered.

We purchased an APC brand UPS, and have not had another problem in the two years since. Like I said, purely anecdotal. No proof that the UPS is truly what solved the problem. But you also clearly have an axe to grind about the quality of power supplies.

Flickering lights must never cause motherboard damage. That voltage variation must be made irrelevant by a power supply. In another thread, I noted how so many will recommend power supplies and yet not know of those power supply functions. China has discovered a profitable market. Americans without sufficient technical knowledge. Asian manufacturers dump power supplies into the clone computer market because so many Americans only buy on price. A cheaper power supply means higher Asian profits.

Even when a power supply completely and spectacularly fails, still, it must never cause motherboard damage. This was standard even 30 years ago. If flickering lights caused a power supply to damage a motherboard, then that power supply is rubbish. If a power supply does not cost $65 full retail, then it is probably missing essential functions and therefore can contribute to motherboard damage.

So let's see. We save $15 on an inferior power supply. Then must buy a $100 UPS to correct the power supply defect? I see this reasoning routinely where people buy on price rather than learn simple technical concepts.

Meanwhile, another problem that connects destructive transients directly to a motherboard. Bypasses a power supply completely. This required wire is why plug-in surge protectors contribute to damage of an adjacent computer. This wire is why a building's equipment ground (not to be confused with earth ground) must be properly wired and should be common to all interconnected boxes. This wire is also why other incoming utilities (cable and telephone) also must be grounded to a common point when entering a building.

[tw]

Originally Posted by maffick

Now sure this is way more than you need but APC makes very nice conditioning and battery backup in one units for just a single workstation. They range from 60-100$. I highly recommend them, and I wonder why folks are badmouthing them.

Oh grandma! What big eyes you have. Oh grandma! What big teeth you have. This is also proof that APC conditions power.

Maffick, did you read the technical response - with numbers - before posting? This is your $60-$100 power conditioner:

Look at an output when UPS is in battery backup mode. That modified sine wave is a 270 volt spike surrounded by 200 volt square waves.

It connects computer directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. Where is the conditioning? Is that internal relay a power conditioner? That is what you have claimed. Its called Rush Limbaugh logic. It does not really exist. But the naive will promote it as fact anyway.

A big rack UPS that is properly earthed provides effective transient protection as well as clean UPS power. A plug-in UPS actually creates more transients than it (claims to) suppress. So where is all this power conditioning? I noticed you never once posted numbers - as Rush Limbaugh also avoids. Shame on you for even implying a plug-in APC UPS "conditions" power. Its called promoting myths.