Impeding changes to our Health Care system

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

As long as you are ok with me pointing out you're a Hack for the Demoncratic party and Obama propaganda machine I am cool with it...

Come on, dude.

Dont talk about propaganda machine when you are still insisting that it is Obama "lies and propaganda" to use the same unemployment standards as every previous president for the last 25+ years. You continue to make a fool out of yourself on this one, since you wont let it go and continue to insist its "propaganda" to use the accepted official figures.

And still posting opinions on "government take-over of health care" and "socialism"...from sources like Joe the Plumber's "Pajama Media" Group.

Anytime you want to stop flooding the threads with outside partisan opinions (and claim they, and you, are not partisan), we can begin to have honest discussions here.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Come on, dude.

Dont talk about propaganda machine when you are still insisting that it is Obama "lies and propaganda" to use the same unemployment standards as every previous president for the last 25+ years. You continue to make a fool out of yourself on this one, since you wont let it go and continue to insist its "propaganda" to use the accepted official figures.

And still posting opinions on "government take-over of health care" and "socialism"...from sources like Joe the Plumber's "Pajama Media" Group.

Anytime you want to stop flooding the threads with outside partisan opinions (and claim they, and you, are not partisan), we can begin to have honest discussions here.

Come on dude, it is more than on health care that Obama is spreading the propaganda and you are helping him here. Just the other day he said, "The Debate is over!", all the while ignoring the fact that both bills were formed behind closed doors by the Dems. His agenda as is the Dems is based on many "socialist" notions of take over by BIG GOV, some needed, much not, thowing money down a big fucking dark hole, unaccounted for and wasted on pork projects. You can't re-package and re-write the history of the last months of this administration and the Demoncratic control of the Congress for the last 3 years. They hold the purse strings, they get the responsibility.

Where are all the "millions of shovel ready jobs"?

[TheMercenary]

A dizzying array of options to pass health care

It's a hard time find a House Democrat who wants to vote for the Senate's health care bill. But they may not have to -- at least directly.

Party leaders have discussed the possibility of using the House Rules Committee to avoid an actual vote on the Senate's bill, according to leadership aides. They would do this by writing what's called a "self-executing rule," meaning the Senate bill would be attached to a package of fixes being negotiated between the two chambers -- without an actual vote on the Senate's legislation.

Under this scenario, the Senate bill would be automatically attached to the reconciliation package, if the House passes reconciliation. In other words, Bill A would just become part of Bill B if the House passes Bill B, and the Senate could then vote on a reconciliation package before sending it to the president. This allows House members to approve the broader measure without actually voting on it.

The same aides who confirmed this process was under discussion quickly noted that party leaders have not yet arrived at a final decision, so it's far from a done deal -- a point House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) made repeatedly Tuesday during his weekly exchange with reporters.

This would allow them to deal with the Senate bill without forcing their members to go on record in support of unpopular items, like the now-infamous Cornhusker Kickback or the so-called Louisiana Purchase, that could be used against them on the campaign trail in the fall.

According to industry lobbyists, the House may take the additional step of further amending the rule to guard against another nightmare scenario -- the Senate's failure to enact a package of fixes through the now-familiar reconciliation process. House leaders could add a caveat to the rule that the Senate bill can only be signed into law if the Senate also passes the fixes.

Confused? You're not alone. These hypotheticals have been the topic of much discussion on Capitol Hill as congressional Democrats look for ways to massage chamber rules in the House and Senate pass a health care bill without any Republican support. And before they can do that, they might need to walk their members through some of the finer points of parliamentary maneuvering.

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/03...e.html?showall

[TheMercenary]

Senate Health Care Bill Dead on Arrival, Pro-Life House Democrats Say

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...use-democrats/

Well it should be interesting to see how they get around those in their own party who would bury this thing...

[Pooka]

Have we not spoken... why does he not get it .... people to Obama regarding Healthcare Reform "DO NOT WANT"

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Pooka

Have we not spoken... why does he not get it .... people to Obama regarding Healthcare Reform "DO NOT WANT"

I don't think that's true. The polls say that the majority don't want the distorted plan that the repubicans have described, but when individual parts of the plan are offered, the majority do want.

[Pooka]

Then they are idiots.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Pooka

Then they are idiots.

Why?

[classicman]

Again - this is my cat channeling . . .

I have heard both sides of this too many times.
I can only say that some may want individual parts, but not the sum total.
We need reform, I think the vast majority agree upon that. Defining what exactly "reform" is, is another story.

I still wonder why, if this bill is so good, that there are so many problems passing it with the majorities they have in both houses. Apparently Obama has been reduced to threatening D's. There has got to be a better way.
meow.

[Pooka]

First of all... why would you want the government to have such a hand in your health care. Think about it.

If the reason is to make it more available and more affordable for everyone... well... there is Medicaid, there is Medicare, and hospitals cannot deny you care if you go to an emergency room. If you pay as little as $5 a month they cannot send you to collections. If you make too much to qualify for assistance… then let me ask you… do you buy cigarettes, sodas, alcohol… learn to budget. If you can't find $5 in your monthly budget it may be time for a second job.

I can tell you it won’t make it more accessible. We can look to California and Canada as examples of “why not”. You will wait longer for access. Your taxes will be higher. The government will have trouble paying facilities... if facilities aren't paid the employees have to wait for pay.
Obama doesn't like that Insurance companies increase premiums every year... well... the population ages and is increasingly becoming sicker (they raise the premiums to cover the risk… they actually run on a fairly small profit margin)... do you really think the government won't increase the taxes to cover the cost of the healthcare year after year just as the Health Insurance companies have done. Health care will become more expensive for everyone, it will suffer in quality, and people will find it much harder to get the care they need. Don’t believe me? Talk to friends in CA or in Canada… they have been living it… and by the way look at the finances of California… it is a glimpse of the future if Obama has his way. This is NOT a good thing any way you slice it.

[piercehawkeye45]

The only health care reform America will accept has to be designed by God itself....

[Shawnee123]

Why is it that people don't understand the difference between the uninsured going to the emergency room because that is the only way they can get treatment, and the huge costs associated with that, and the lesser costs, in the long run and on the large scale, of preventative and primary care?

I think most people are afraid someone else is going to get something free, that they themselves have to pay for.

Well, we live in a society. That's how we roll.

[Pooka]

While, I don’t disagree that it would be cheaper to take preventive measures… I believe we should all be taking personal financial responsibility for ourselves and our immediate families. Placing the government in charge of Healthcare is not the answer. California currently offers state funded health coverage… the state is essentially bankrupt; hospitals aren’t getting paid for months at a time… it is a disaster.
There is a large population of folks who believe that they should be supported by the rest of us. I do not think it is right to fault those with means to pay for healthcare for not wanting to foot the bill for others beyond what the current income tax supports. When I did not have the income to cover the cost of health insurance our community hospital had a program through which you could pay a percentage of the bill. With this program you could access a number of clinics across the area. The program still exists. I was grateful the short time I needed it, but was much happier to not need it anymore.
There should be more of a push for self sufficiency in this nation. Of course, if you believe that the higher income should foot the bill for the lower… well we will not see eye to eye on that. I personally am for a flat 10% tax across the board. I have come to realize that the higher paid jobs… they pay more because of the education that people have. If I had my masters my income potential would be much greater than it is. That is how it should be. Do I think that those higher income folks should have to share their hard earned money with me… uhhh noooo.

[Shawnee123]

I see what you're saying Pooka. This is something I've struggled with: I always thought that we can't imagine the circumstances some people grow up in. We hear stories of the kid who grew up in an inner-city slum, who is now CEO of a company or something. Sure, the potential for bettering oneself exists, but who shows someone that? The kid who is now successful surely had some influence in his life who told him "you don't have to live this way...you can make it." Also, not everyone is exactly equal in intelligence.

However, as I've grown older I've had to try very hard (and I am not always successful) not to get jaded by the crap I see every single working day. It's easy for me to think 'oh come ON...quit playing games and get serious about your life' because I see the people who play the system. I also see those who are helped by the system.

Do I think higher income people should foot bills for lower income people? Not for most things, or in all circumstances. But, because there ARE circumstances people cannot help or change, and because I do believe that as a society we have a responsibility to help those who can't help themselves, I think we do have certain responsibilities as a civilized society. Unfortunately the sneakies and the lazies ride that train too.

I think society does have a responsibility, in at least two critical areas: health care, and education.

But believe me, I struggle with this sometimes...no more so than when I was working hard and struggling to make ends meet myself.

[Pooka]

Govenment is in charge of education and we are so far behind other countries it isn't even funny. Now translate that to healthcare... you see my point?