The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Politics

Politics Where we learn not to think less of others who don't share our views

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-28-2015, 09:14 PM   #46
classicman
barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy.
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 23,401
Quote:
Boosting the federal minimum wage would be great news for the workers who’d receive a higher paycheck. Not so much for those who’d be out of a job. That anxiety sums up much of the debate around increasing the minimum wage.

Fueling angst on the right, the Congressional Budget Office reported last year that raising the federal minimum to $10.10 would cost about 500,000 jobs. Even liberal restaurant owners, like the ones NewsHour’s Paul Solman spoke to in Seattle last spring, worried that paying their workers more would doom their businesses, while nonprofit organizations feared having to cut their staff and services.
PBS Article
__________________
"like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt
classicman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2015, 10:14 PM   #47
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
Heh. The article is making the opposite claim, and the quoted paragraph was provided as counterpoint to the subject of the article.
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2015, 10:46 PM   #48
Lamplighter
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
I don't buy the bullet points pushed by pundits when "raising the minimum wage" is discussed.

One of the current hallmarks of today's economy is "high productivity"

I think that just means that employers are getting more product out of every employee.
But it also probably means they are paying the least amount of wages they can,
and their employees are working about as hard as they can.

If such is the case, employers are not as likely to lay off the workers they have now.
If they did, there were be fewer products and lower profits.

Consider a restaurant, if they laid off waiters/waitresses or cooks,
fewer meals would be served, and profits would go down

Instead, I think they will just pay the new minimum wages, and move on.
Lamplighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 07:36 AM   #49
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
Would you pay more for a meal at a place paying very high salaries to their wait staff, Lamp?
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 07:57 AM   #50
Spexxvet
Makes some feel uncomfortable
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
I don't buy the bullet points pushed by pundits when "raising the minimum wage" is discussed.

One of the current hallmarks of today's economy is "high productivity"

I think that just means that employers are getting more product out of every employee.
Not "employee", but "payroll dollar". There's no such thing as people to The Man, only numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
But it also probably means they are paying the least amount of wages they can,
and their employees are working about as hard as they can.

If such is the case, employers are not as likely to lay off the workers they have now.
If they did, there were be fewer products and lower profits.

Consider a restaurant, if they laid off waiters/waitresses or cooks,
fewer meals would be served, and profits would go down
In the short term, profits would go up. Fewer meals wouldn't be served, right off the bat, they'd just take longer to get to the table, people would have to wait to order, etc. When customers stopped coming for those reasons is when fewer meals would be served and profits would drop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
Instead, I think they will just pay the new minimum wages, and move on.
I doubt it. American business isn't like Japanese business - they don't think long term. They see the short term improvement and think it will just continue. Six months later, they fold.
__________________
"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce
Spexxvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 08:01 AM   #51
Spexxvet
Makes some feel uncomfortable
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Would you pay more for a meal at a place paying very high salaries to their wait staff, Lamp?
We already do.
__________________
"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce
Spexxvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 08:54 AM   #52
Lamplighter
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Would you pay more for a meal at a place paying very high salaries to their wait staff, Lamp?
Your stance is that minimum wage is "very high salaries" ?
Lamplighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 08:59 AM   #53
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
It's a hypothetical.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 09:07 AM   #54
Lamplighter
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
It's a hypothetical.
OK, whatever that means.
Lamplighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 09:52 AM   #55
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
It means I'm asking you a leading question as part of a discussion.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 11:30 AM   #56
Lamplighter
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
It means I'm asking you a leading question as part of a discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Would you pay more for a meal at a place paying very high salaries to their wait staff, Lamp?
OK, my answer is Yes. Go ahead and say whatever you wanted to say.
Lamplighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 01:00 PM   #57
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
Sorry, it's an annoying line of conversation, online. I will shorten the transaction.


In your budget, what would you now not pay for, in order to eat there?

It's because you said, "Instead, I think they will just pay the new minimum wages, and move on."

I think the "move on" part is unacceptable. That's what a lot of this thread is about. Can't just throw away one side of the equation.

Now you have paid $10 more for your ribeye at Texas Roadhouse and your server was well-compensated. So far so good. But you can't just "move on", because now there are $10 fewer dollars in your billfold. So, what will you now not pay for, now that you have paid more for a steak?
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 02:22 PM   #58
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet View Post
From your link, what the hell is the difference between the duties of a Host vs a Hostess? Different pay and different pay range.
Attached Images
 
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 02:46 PM   #59
Lamplighter
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods
Posts: 6,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
...In your budget, what would you now not pay for, in order to eat there?<snip>
So, what will you now not pay for, now that you have paid more for a steak?
UT, I think we have each misunderstood one another.
Quote:
...Instead, I think they will just pay the new minimum wages, and move on.
In my post, by "they" I meant the "employer" would move on.
Obviously the employer has several options ... taking a smaller profit is one, raising meal prices is another, or reducing other costs (menu, portion size, ingredients, etc.) are within the purview of the employer.

The employee has only 2 options... continue at currently offered wage or look for work elsewhere.

Within your meaning, whatever I would do if I had $10 less in my billfold would depend on my level of income and assets.
At some level downwards, I would not be able to pay for the meal.
At some level upwards, $10 would not make any difference at all.

My view of the minimum wage is that a (relatively) small increase in wages can make a much more significant improvement in the life of employees than the same sized decrease in profit will make in the life of the employer.
But all that is for a different posting

Last edited by Lamplighter; 01-29-2015 at 03:05 PM.
Lamplighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2015, 03:14 PM   #60
Spexxvet
Makes some feel uncomfortable
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
From your link, what the hell is the difference between the duties of a Host vs a Hostess? Different pay and different pay range.
It's gender discrimination
__________________
"I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce
Spexxvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:07 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.