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Old 06-12-2019, 01:24 AM   #31
xoxoxoBruce
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Life as opposed to death, yes. But what you do with your liberty determines that, because what you do day to day in good conscience may piss off the wrong person. He has no right to take your life but that won't do you much good. And if he kills you in good conscience, should the government carry out a vendetta on your behalf?
Property, yes to anything in your possession which doesn't truthfully belong to someone else.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:27 AM   #32
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Bruce

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Old 06-16-2019, 12:35 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry quirk View Post
Dana: My first post was fucking with you. My second was a genuine attempt to discuss the question.

Thanks for admittin' that. I'll address your 'genuine attempt' down-post.

#

clod: I should have the ability to get a restraining order on my emotional abuser.

No. You have the ability to end abuse (emotional, physical) right now. You just won't take the bull by the balls and 'do' it. As you like.

#

glatt: Henry, you think the world is black and white and every person who points out a shade of gray is a nitpicker.

Nope.

#

Flint: you do need some (laws/regs).

Yeah, I know.

I've said the same, more than once ('sensible, minimal': ring a bell?)

##

Genuine attempts: I was pretty hot when I signed off. 'Hot' cuz I was certain I was bein' fucked with. I chilled and realized I wasn't bein' fucked with. Dana's comment about her genuine attempt concreted that realization. You folks are't nit pickin'.

No, things are much worse.

See, when someone asks me a question, I just answer. I don't ask for defintions or clarifications cuz I figure if the questioner has narrow definitions he'll incorporate them into the question.

What I expected when I asked Does an individual have a right to his life, his liberty, his property? were for folks to just tell me what they thought. I expected some to say 'yes', some to say 'no', and some to drone on. Instead I got folks clarifying to me, assuming what I meant, and bein' clever tryin' to trip me up.

Not one actual answer, not one actual 'this is what I think'.

You're all intelligent, well-read, educated folks. Unfortunately you're all also 'consequentialists'. When it comes to 'life, liberty, property' you have no moral principle. Rights, except as legal matters, don't exist for you. It's all 'utilitarianism' to you.

So: no, we have no common ground, no commonality.
There's a dedicated quote button, y'know...Just sayin'.
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:42 PM   #34
sexobon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravdigr View Post
There's a dedicated quote button, y'know...Just sayin'.
HEY! If you're going to say stuff like that, take it to the Horses thread.

That's what it's there for, getting on your high horse.
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Old 06-16-2019, 12:51 PM   #35
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But, I ain't high.

Yet.
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Old 06-16-2019, 01:05 PM   #36
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Old 06-16-2019, 02:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravdigr View Post
But, I ain't high.

Yet.
Oh the humanity
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:55 AM   #38
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravdigr View Post
There's a dedicated quote button, y'know...Just sayin'.
It means learning before writing.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:22 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravdigr View Post
There's a dedicated quote button, y'know...Just sayin'.
I know.

I don't care.

##

tw,

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##

Does an individual have a right to his life, his liberty, his property?

Yes.

What's his right based in?

Self-ownership.

Are there any limits to this right?

Yes: the other guy's right to his own life, liberty, and property.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:02 PM   #40
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I laugh every time I see this thread active, because of its title. Here's how it went, to me:

"I'm here to look for common ground. My belief is A. Do you agree, yes or no?"

"Yes, with reservations"

"(Angrily) We can have no common ground."
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:12 PM   #41
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toad

How can a moral objectivist have common ground with moral subjectivists?
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:22 PM   #42
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There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:25 PM   #43
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flint nailed it

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Old 06-18-2019, 04:26 PM   #44
Flint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
I laugh every time I see this thread active, because of its title. Here's how it went, to me:

"I'm here to look for common ground. My belief is A. Do you agree, yes or no?"

"Yes, with reservations"

"(Angrily) We can have no common ground."
EtA: "We can have no common ground, because MY conditions forbid it!"
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******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:28 PM   #45
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"MY conditions forbid it!"

Fair assessment.

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