Sick of "Hate Crime" Being Used - Page 3

Cloud · 03-16-2007, 05:38 PM

Well, it might not be, depending on your motivation and your understanding of the cause and effect. If you truly did not understand the consequences of your actions, you might be found to be an incapacitated person who could not be charged with a crime. Or, if you thought it was just a prank, and didn't actually mean to injure or kill people, there might be a less severe punishment. The law acknowledges and provides for different degrees of malice and intent.

You said that the reason for a crime does not matter. Maybe it shouldn't, to you. However, our legal system has evolved to take motivations into account, both in crimes and in tort.

03-16-2007, 05:41 PM

But if you intend to kill someone for cash and picked them because they are old or black, you still murdered them for equally stupid reasons and deserve to go away for the rest of your life, equally.
If you mugged them for the same reasons you deserve the same sentence. They are equally reprehensible reasons to harm someone and their hurt is equal.
Justice is not vengeance and never should be.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-16-2007, 08:16 PM

Lizzie Borden took and axe
Gave her mother 40 whacks,
When she saw what she had done
She gave her father 41.

But lizzie walked away scott free
She was not hung from any tree,
It's hard to say at this late date
But I think because she didn't hate.

monster · 03-16-2007, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

So, if I set a machine up to randomly shoot because I like the sound and it happens to kill someone, no crime. Cool.

If you shoot a person trying to rape your wife or kid, is it murder?

Spexxvet · 03-16-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

If you shoot a person trying to rape your wife or kid, is it murder?

Sure. It may be that a jury acquits you because it's justifiable, but it's murder.

monster · 03-16-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Sure. It may be that a jury acquits you because it's justifiable, but it's murder.

If you're acquitted, legally it wasn't murder.

monster · 03-16-2007, 08:59 PM

...would you feel it wrong if you were sentenced to death/life imprisonment?

glatt · 03-17-2007, 08:19 AM

How about if you littered by disposing of a dog's head on the owner's front porch in a gift wrapped box? Should you get a ticket for littering, or is that a more serious crime because of your intent to terrorize them?

Spexxvet · 03-17-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

If you're acquitted, legally it wasn't murder.

Word games. Is killing in war murder? How about political assassination? Capital punishment, abortion, euthanasia, vehicular homicide?

Justifiable homicide is murder - the jury merely felt ok with your murdering ways.

Happy Monkey · 03-17-2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Word games. Is killing in war murder? How about political assassination? Capital punishment, abortion, euthanasia, vehicular homicide?

Exactly. Motive counts.

skysidhe · 03-17-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

You are kidding right? You really cannot think for yourself enough to understand that I was talking about human on human crime since it is the paradigm of the type of crime defined by hate crimes?
Then, I'm sorry I did not spell that out for you.

I think she did RK. For Bri's example she used names like 'Billybob' and 'Abdul'.
I think that speak volumes about stereotypes.

(Thinking out loud. *Anyone who names their kid Billybob should be charged with a hate crime*:P)

03-17-2007, 09:50 AM

State sanctioned murder is absolutely murder, strapping someone to a chair or bed and killing them is murder.
"Capitol Punishment" is just a nice way of putting it. It is murder.
There is nothing about it that can be sanely interpreted as self-defense.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-17-2007, 10:52 AM

Dar true, but doesn't mean it's not justified and/or acceptable to a reasonable society.

03-17-2007, 12:10 PM

I think it means exactly that.
Murdering a murderer makes you one. Reason, states that clearly.

Demalo · 03-17-2007, 05:58 PM

Should murder be taught in school as a bad thing? Granted this type of issue has been seen as a parental responsibility for quite some time I'm guessing it hasn't quite worked out very well.

I say if people can't/wont think for themselves anymore, why should they? I suppose you've got the right to be stupid, there's no crime against idoicy only the results of it.

03-16-2007, 05:38 PM	#31
Cloud ... Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 8,360	Well, it might not be, depending on your motivation and your understanding of the cause and effect. If you truly did not understand the consequences of your actions, you might be found to be an incapacitated person who could not be charged with a crime. Or, if you thought it was just a prank, and didn't actually mean to injure or kill people, there might be a less severe punishment. The law acknowledges and provides for different degrees of malice and intent. You said that the reason for a crime does not matter. Maybe it shouldn't, to you. However, our legal system has evolved to take motivations into account, both in crimes and in tort. __________________ "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards!"

03-16-2007, 08:16 PM	#33
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Lizzie Borden took and axe Gave her mother 40 whacks, When she saw what she had done She gave her father 41. But lizzie walked away scott free She was not hung from any tree, It's hard to say at this late date But I think because she didn't hate. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-16-2007, 08:59 PM	#37
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	...would you feel it wrong if you were sentenced to death/life imprisonment? __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

03-17-2007, 10:52 AM	#43
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Dar true, but doesn't mean it's not justified and/or acceptable to a reasonable society. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-17-2007, 05:58 PM	#45
Demalo Person Who Has Posted Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Maine Posts: 2	Should murder be taught in school as a bad thing? Granted this type of issue has been seen as a parental responsibility for quite some time I'm guessing it hasn't quite worked out very well. I say if people can't/wont think for themselves anymore, why should they? I suppose you've got the right to be stupid, there's no crime against idoicy only the results of it. __________________ "There are microphones in the walls..." - me

03-16-2007, 05:41 PM	#32
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	But if you intend to kill someone for cash and picked them because they are old or black, you still murdered them for equally stupid reasons and deserve to go away for the rest of your life, equally. If you mugged them for the same reasons you deserve the same sentence. They are equally reprehensible reasons to harm someone and their hurt is equal. Justice is not vengeance and never should be.

03-17-2007, 08:19 AM	#38
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	How about if you littered by disposing of a dog's head on the owner's front porch in a gift wrapped box? Should you get a ticket for littering, or is that a more serious crime because of your intent to terrorize them?

03-17-2007, 09:50 AM	#42
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	State sanctioned murder is absolutely murder, strapping someone to a chair or bed and killing them is murder. "Capitol Punishment" is just a nice way of putting it. It is murder. There is nothing about it that can be sanely interpreted as self-defense.

03-17-2007, 12:10 PM	#44
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	I think it means exactly that. Murdering a murderer makes you one. Reason, states that clearly.

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