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Old 07-09-2012, 10:47 AM   #31
jimhelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint View Post
It has nothing to do with me, or what my criteria is, or why you would care to convince me. That is way off-point.

The only thing that matters is doing the work to verify facts, to check hypothes. Demonstrate the foundation for a statement, i.e. what are the fundamental components--how do we know they fit together in the fashion suggested?

If these things can't be done, then what has been posited is classified as "file 13" --garbage. Not by me, but by the tireless global community of thinking individuals which constitute the vanguard of human culture and knowledge.


It has nothing to do with me, or whether you think I'm arguing with you. There is a correct procedure, well-defined and having stood the test of time. If you aren't following it, and I'm the one who has to bust your balls, and you want to spin that as me "arguing" with you, then you're really missing the point. Do your homework, because you aren't getting any free passes.

To flip this to the counterpoint--why should I care enough about you to take your glib statements at face value?

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Old 07-09-2012, 11:12 AM   #32
Undertoad
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Quote:
To flip this to the counterpoint--why should I care enough about you to take your glib statements at face value?
You cared enough to ask the question. Now look at me not caring enough to answer. Quod Erat Demonstrandum, in some subtle way.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:39 PM   #33
Flint
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I'm not playing the "I care less than you" game--I'm asking the question.
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There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:30 PM   #34
Undertoad
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Well I didn't make my original statement correctly.

I was having this same discussion with a friend of mine, who said he was always happy to entertain contradictions in his personal philosophy; and said with some pride that they never do. Sometimes they test it but it remains unbroken.

And I put that to great thought, and realized that I had a lot of contradictions to point out, but despite being his good friend for years, I never did. I thought maybe that's what friends do.

So it is partly up to us to put our own thoughts and beliefs and narratives to the harshest tests we can find. I won't fix you. You fix you.

By the way sir
Quote:
you want to spin that as me "arguing" with you
but earlier
Quote:
I say all the time that the reason I am arguing is because I want to be proven wrong.
Hey man YOU said it was "arguing" so I just went with your term
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:50 PM   #35
Flint
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Oh, no, man, not "you" you, universal you--anyone.

Anytime anyone wants to "chicken out" when hard verification is called for. And not of my personal belief systems, or anything like that.

Mostly just mundane stuff, like as if two people were debating what 2 plus 2 adds up to. Person A says it is 4, and is happy to demonstrate why it is 4. Person B just feels like it is 5, but has nothing to back that up. If person B is pressed by person A for more details, it is easy to say that person A is being an a$$hole "for no reason" and why can't they just leave it alone.

But it isn't "for no reason" --it is because facts and details are important.



What I got from your original comment is that, as a "Person A" I am not trying to force my conclusion as the only possible true conclusion. I would actually love for Persons B to break out a pencil and paper, show me the math and show me where I was wrong.

Then, you know, you learn.



In short, I don't debate to prove I am right. I debate to learn what is right. It's a process. It's on purpose.

Everyone has something to contribute. If we counted on ourselves to have the exclusive correct answers, that would be silly.
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 07-09-2012, 04:06 PM   #36
Pico and ME
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Going back the the fan direction...

I run it so that it pulls the air up. I have a really cool basement. Now, in a hot house, I cant imagine it doing much if there isnt any cooler air below that needs to be drawn up. In that case, I would think that forcing the air down would provide more relief, at least while you are under it.

To test which direction the blades need to run, I simply lick my finger and hold it under them. If the bottom of my finger gets a little cooler than the top, then the air is being forced up.
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Last edited by Pico and ME; 07-09-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:41 PM   #37
jimhelm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint View Post

Everyone has something to contribute. If we counted on ourselves to have the exclusive correct answers, that would be silly.
that would be Religion or Politics, actually.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:41 PM   #38
jimhelm
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quick, somebody put that shit in the Hall of Fame.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:47 PM   #39
SamIam
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Is this when the shit hits the fan?
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