Down to the bare metal - Page 2

Rock Steady · 10-20-2005, 11:04 PM

"Brand name systems" what a joke.

We run one of the largest ad networks on generic dual AMD Opterons running Open Solaris. Peak, our decision server hits 6,000 requests per second. The application uses 12MB of main memory.

I repeat, I have not had many hardware problems. I always buy good parts, Asus MBs, Antec Cases, etc, much better stuff than the so called name brands, which use crap parts and short cuts.

Hardware is reliable. Software gets fucked up.

Rock Steady · 10-20-2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

Meanwhile, you tell me. The computer does not power.

We we're talking about that at all. We were talking about Win/XP becoming so ripe that it can't get out of it's own way.

"The adult". That sounds like a household in trouble with PCs. I've been programming since 1971, I think I know what I am doing by now.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-21-2005, 01:21 AM

I've got the Dell diagnostic Discs but haven't a clue what to do with them.
I'm neither a software nor hardware geek, just a PC user.

juju · 10-21-2005, 04:11 AM

Diagnosing OS-related problems on Windows is extremely difficult because it is closed-source. There's simply not enough information about the components to dig down deep into the problem with. I think this is one of those situations where one thing is good in principle, but in reality, another thing is way easier. Still, there are a whole host of things you could have done first to try to prevent spending so much time reinstalling. Such as:

Disabling all the apps that load up at boot time (msconfig and/or hijackthis)

Ensuring that DMA is enabled on the hard drive.

Ensuring that you have enough RAM.

Running the hard disk diagnostic tool (obtained from the hard disk manufacturer's website).

Checking the RAM integrity (memtest86+)

Of course, keeping this from happening again is a whole other list.

Happy Monkey · 10-21-2005, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juju

Ensuring that DMA is enabled on the hard drive.

How do you do this in XP?

Perry Winkle · 10-21-2005, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juju

Of course, keeping this from happening again is a whole other list.

A short list though. Simply,

Don't use Microsoft Windows

(I can't help myself, sorry.)

juju · 10-21-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

How do you do this in XP?

I think you go into the device manager, into the properties of either the hard drive or the ide device. A quick google could provide more details, but that's usually where I go.

Happy Monkey · 10-21-2005, 11:21 AM

Yeah, I've done it a couple of times, and IIRC XP does say they are DMA enabled, but some program I have keeps complaining that they aren't. I suspect it's the program's fault.

zippyt · 10-21-2005, 03:07 PM

Personaly , when i blank , reformat , and repartition a HD , I load windows , get that setup and stable , then load the newest version of Norton i can get my hands on , get that setup and stable , then start with all the updates , service packs , virious deffanitions , etc,,, then scan , scan , scan , test test test , benchmarks and all
THEN I load other software , and see how it is doing and Then tweek it to the way I like it ,

In my experence service disks from some PC "manufactures " load CRAP !!! Some if not ALL DELLs will create a small partition on your HD for diognostic and admin stuff ,
in the older days this could be a problem , if a prog was looking to read from drive D: and drive D: was said partition , or Scusii cards had problems finding drive letters for various things , or network cards and soft ware freaking because there was 2 drive D:'s , weird stuff that would make you PULL your hair out !!!!!!!

Rock Steady · 10-21-2005, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyt

Personaly , when i blank , reformat , and repartition a HD , I load windows , get that setup and stable , then load the newest version of Norton i can get my hands on , get that setup and stable , then start with all the updates , service packs , virious deffanitions , etc,,, then scan , scan , scan , test test test , benchmarks and all
THEN I load other software , and see how it is doing and Then tweek it to the way I like it ,

Yep, that's basically my routine too. Except, just before the "THEN", I do an explicit System-Restore SAVE and name it Stable-1 or something. Maybe do another S-R SAVE every 5-6 app installs.

Nothing like a clean system.

juju · 10-21-2005, 05:44 PM

You can also use Norton Ghost to create an image of your clean system after you've done all that. That way, when it inevitably crashes and burns again, you can just restore it from the image.

BigV · 10-21-2005, 10:06 PM

I'm baaaa-aaack.

Well, I took today off from work, that's probably why I haven't posted recently. Wait. That sounds kind of embarassing and incriminating.....anyway.

Rather than quote you and argue with you tw, since I disagree with you on several points in this thread, I'll just hold forth on my own.

1 -- I know what I'm doing; I'm making my machine run right. "Shotgun approach"? Naw, more like dynamite, bulldozer, and professional re-construction.

2 -- When you have a malfunctioning capacitor, do you unsolder the can, unroll the inside, and locate the break or short before you run the forensic diagnostics to determine if the source of the problem was an overvoltage condition, a thermal failure, or the result of shoddy workmanship sue to the shortsighted workforce polices of the dunder-headed MBAs who foolishly decided they needed to support the stock price as the quarterly reports were coming due so that their bonuses tied to the company's P/L position would be (selfishly) enhanced, or after?

3 -- This machine, my main work and pleasure machine (computer, you doofus), is well protected against malicious assaults from the internet, but is subject to some hard duty. Like Pasteur, I often experiment on my own system before I install a program for others. Sometimes I uninstall the program, sometimes not. I accumulate A LOT of cockadoodie and I was simply tired of it. Unlike successive coats of paint, these additions to my system don't always affect only themselves. Think applying the second (or third or thirtieth) before the previous coats were dry. The applications get mixed up sometimes. And that's for the well-behaved applications. Sometimes the stuff I install is crap, and doesn't install nicely, and uninstalls even less nicely. I was tired of hauling around all that baggage. Buh-bye.

4 -- You were totally right on the part about being off the air by the time I read the post. Good call.

edit: I corrected my science history. Pasteur, not Lister, famously experimented on himself.

dar512 · 10-21-2005, 11:48 PM

Glad to have you back, V. How's the computer running now that it's squeeky clean?

BigV · 10-22-2005, 12:04 AM

Well, I *did* load Firefox first, (third, after MS Office, Symantec AntiVirus Corp Ed v10). I loaded XPSP2 from cd, and after a couple of warmup trips through Windows Update, I am making a Microsoft Update haul of 43 updates at >100 MB. *sigh*

I think I overlooked the step where I exported all my bookmarks from Firefox, but so far, so good. The system is way, waaaay faster just getting on it's feet. It was really a case of picking the pepper out of the fly sh*t in my case. That was fairly funny and dead accurate.

I haven't installed many old apps yet, including the wirelessness for the home network. It feels weird tethered to a network cable on the couch. Old skool. But many of the preliminary updates have required a restart, which is normal, and the system comes right up right now. It feels like a whole new system. I hope to keep that lovin' feelin' as the apps get installed.

But as of now, I'm a very happy camper.

tw · 10-22-2005, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

But as of now, I'm a very happy camper.

That's nice. But what failed?

10-20-2005, 11:04 PM	#16
Rock Steady Day Tripper Join Date: May 2005 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 784	"Brand name systems" what a joke. We run one of the largest ad networks on generic dual AMD Opterons running Open Solaris. Peak, our decision server hits 6,000 requests per second. The application uses 12MB of main memory. I repeat, I have not had many hardware problems. I always buy good parts, Asus MBs, Antec Cases, etc, much better stuff than the so called name brands, which use crap parts and short cuts. Hardware is reliable. Software gets fucked up. __________________

10-21-2005, 01:21 AM	#18
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I've got the Dell diagnostic Discs but haven't a clue what to do with them. I'm neither a software nor hardware geek, just a PC user. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

10-21-2005, 04:11 AM	#19
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Diagnosing OS-related problems on Windows is extremely difficult because it is closed-source. There's simply not enough information about the components to dig down deep into the problem with. I think this is one of those situations where one thing is good in principle, but in reality, another thing is way easier. Still, there are a whole host of things you could have done first to try to prevent spending so much time reinstalling. Such as: Disabling all the apps that load up at boot time (msconfig and/or hijackthis) Ensuring that DMA is enabled on the hard drive. Ensuring that you have enough RAM. Running the hard disk diagnostic tool (obtained from the hard disk manufacturer's website). Checking the RAM integrity (memtest86+) Of course, keeping this from happening again is a whole other list. Last edited by juju; 10-21-2005 at 04:13 AM.

10-21-2005, 11:21 AM	#23
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Yeah, I've done it a couple of times, and IIRC XP does say they are DMA enabled, but some program I have keeps complaining that they aren't. I suspect it's the program's fault. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

10-21-2005, 03:07 PM	#24
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	Personaly , when i blank , reformat , and repartition a HD , I load windows , get that setup and stable , then load the newest version of Norton i can get my hands on , get that setup and stable , then start with all the updates , service packs , virious deffanitions , etc,,, then scan , scan , scan , test test test , benchmarks and all THEN I load other software , and see how it is doing and Then tweek it to the way I like it , In my experence service disks from some PC "manufactures " load CRAP !!! Some if not ALL DELLs will create a small partition on your HD for diognostic and admin stuff , in the older days this could be a problem , if a prog was looking to read from drive D: and drive D: was said partition , or Scusii cards had problems finding drive letters for various things , or network cards and soft ware freaking because there was 2 drive D:'s , weird stuff that would make you PULL your hair out !!!!!!! __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

10-21-2005, 05:44 PM	#26
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	You can also use Norton Ghost to create an image of your clean system after you've done all that. That way, when it inevitably crashes and burns again, you can just restore it from the image.

10-21-2005, 10:06 PM	#27
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	I'm baaaa-aaack. Well, I took today off from work, that's probably why I haven't posted recently. Wait. That sounds kind of embarassing and incriminating.....anyway. Rather than quote you and argue with you tw, since I disagree with you on several points in this thread, I'll just hold forth on my own. 1 -- I know what I'm doing; I'm making my machine run right. "Shotgun approach"? Naw, more like dynamite, bulldozer, and professional re-construction. 2 -- When you have a malfunctioning capacitor, do you unsolder the can, unroll the inside, and locate the break or short before you run the forensic diagnostics to determine if the source of the problem was an overvoltage condition, a thermal failure, or the result of shoddy workmanship sue to the shortsighted workforce polices of the dunder-headed MBAs who foolishly decided they needed to support the stock price as the quarterly reports were coming due so that their bonuses tied to the company's P/L position would be (selfishly) enhanced, or after? 3 -- This machine, my main work and pleasure machine (computer, you doofus), is well protected against malicious assaults from the internet, but is subject to some hard duty. Like Pasteur, I often experiment on my own system before I install a program for others. Sometimes I uninstall the program, sometimes not. I accumulate A LOT of cockadoodie and I was simply tired of it. Unlike successive coats of paint, these additions to my system don't always affect only themselves. Think applying the second (or third or thirtieth) before the previous coats were dry. The applications get mixed up sometimes. And that's for the well-behaved applications. Sometimes the stuff I install is crap, and doesn't install nicely, and uninstalls even less nicely. I was tired of hauling around all that baggage. Buh-bye. 4 -- You were totally right on the part about being off the air by the time I read the post. Good call. edit: I corrected my science history. Pasteur, not Lister, famously experimented on himself. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not. Last edited by BigV; 10-22-2005 at 12:18 AM.

10-21-2005, 11:48 PM	#28
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	Glad to have you back, V. How's the computer running now that it's squeeky clean? __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

10-22-2005, 12:04 AM	#29
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	Well, I did load Firefox first, (third, after MS Office, Symantec AntiVirus Corp Ed v10). I loaded XPSP2 from cd, and after a couple of warmup trips through Windows Update, I am making a Microsoft Update haul of 43 updates at >100 MB. sigh I think I overlooked the step where I exported all my bookmarks from Firefox, but so far, so good. The system is way, waaaay faster just getting on it's feet. It was really a case of picking the pepper out of the fly sht in my case. That was fairly funny and dead accurate. I haven't installed many old apps yet, including the wirelessness for the home network. It feels weird tethered to a network cable on the couch. Old skool. But many of the preliminary updates have required a restart, which is normal, and the system comes right up right now.* It feels like a whole new system. I hope to keep that lovin' feelin' as the apps get installed. But as of now, I'm a very happy camper. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

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