CyberBully - Page 8

dar512 · 03-30-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

well....dar.....that's where you're coloring in your own opinions of what kind of person I am. and you too, Pie...

Possibly. Here's what you said: "some folks are out there LOOKING to be victims. just sayin'"

The subtext I heard was "... so they deserve whatever they get."

If that's not the statement you intended to make, then I'm confused as to why you brought up the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

i think you're full of yourself

Because I try to act ethically and I speak out against unethical behavior? Does that equal stuck-up to you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

overestimate the value of your so called honor.

I don't think it is possible to overestimate ethical behavior. It is the basis for trust.

jinx · 03-30-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Possibly. Here's what you said: "some folks are out there LOOKING to be victims. just sayin'"

The subtext I heard was "... so they deserve whatever they get."

I think you should think about why you heard a subtext that isn't there. "Deserve whatever they get" is a judgment and not what we're talking about at all. Acknowledging the roles we play in the events in our own lives isn't about judgment, it's about learning, growing, being safe etc...
I can believe that rape is bad and rapists are always at fault and still teach my daughter that she is responsible for her own safety.

If you only address half the problem, you're gonna get a half-assed solution (see Mercs article).

dar512 · 03-30-2009, 12:45 PM

I admit that I have a sensitivity to the subject having been bullied in HS, but I think it was natural to read that subtext into Jims post. After reflection, I realized that I had read that into his post.

I am still confused, however, by just why he would post that. Do you and Jim believe that this is the most common scenario? That bullies pick on those who set themselves up to be bullied? I don't buy that. It may occur, but I'd be willing to bet it is a very small percentage of the cases.

If you think that each person can (on their own) deter being bullied, then you are mistaken. Some of us are smaller or fatter or weaker.

Pico and ME · 03-30-2009, 01:24 PM

I didnt like his statement either considering the topic, but I read it a little differently than you did, dar. I thought he was characterizing the site - how people are there to play up their victim status.

lumberjim · 03-30-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

Possibly. Here's what you said: "some folks are out there LOOKING to be victims. just sayin'"

The subtext I heard was "... so they deserve whatever they get."

If that's not the statement you intended to make, then I'm confused as to why you brought up the point.

so you heard what you expected to hear, and assumed my intent. I already clarified this point, but once more.....SOME people are looking to play victim. as for why I brought it up....it was because the victim DOES play a role in bullying.....and no one had mentioned that yet. hence.....discussion. until you began casting personal aspersions about. yes you...

jinx pointed out something interesting to me...

notice how all of the people that have said they were bullied have lashed out inappropriately at one person or another? sheldon is glad someone is DEAD? wtf?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

Because I try to act ethically and I speak out against unethical behavior? Does that equal stuck-up to you?

no...it's not because of WHAT you say...it's HOW you say it. condescending tone that implies your superior sense of honor......constantly. and what behavior of mine was unethical in this thread? I have been making an effort lately to NOT bully or personally insult people unless they go first. you have not noticed this, i expect.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

I don't think it is possible to overestimate ethical behavior. It is the basis for trust.

i agree with that.

Clodfobble · 03-30-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

notice how all of the people that have said they were bullied have lashed out inappropriately at one person or another? sheldon is glad someone is DEAD? wtf?

Not me. But I think this is the fundamental problem with bullying--in most cases, I think the bullies honestly don't understand the torment they're inflicting. Yes, they know they're deliberately hurting someone, but they can't conceive of what it really feels like. So when someone who has been bullied expresses (or acts on) a desire to inflict equivalent pain, bystanders are shocked at the viciousness, because they fundamentally can't relate to the amount of pain the bullied victim is in.

lumberjim · 03-30-2009, 02:31 PM

i don't know about that either....i think a lot of bullies have been or are being bullied themselves.

lumberjim · 03-30-2009, 02:34 PM

here's a question......

for those of you that were bullied all throughout school....was it the same bully the whole time? or were there a series of bullies?

Clodfobble · 03-30-2009, 03:25 PM

One bully, from sixth grade up through senior year. Before she came along I was already a big nerd and not very well liked in general, but she was the only one who made me (and later several of my friends) miserable. And what's more, she encouraged her closest group of friends to be far meaner than they were before she showed up.

I believe I've mentioned here before that summer camp was my sanctuary. At summer camp I was popular, because there were no grades and no one had to know what a big smarty pants I secretly was. It had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with the environment we were put in.

classicman · 03-30-2009, 03:54 PM

I've remained quite a while here to try and get a grasp upon what you all are trying to express. I was in some less than cool clubs in school. I didn't have any friends that I know of who were bullied nor was I to the degree that you folks seem to have been. I certainly wasn't any more popular then than I am here on teh Cellar.

I never equated bullying with the vicious harassment that most of you do. I always looked at it more like teasing. This is a completely different and foreign reality to me.

SteveDallas · 03-30-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

here's a question......

for those of you that were bullied all throughout school....was it the same bully the whole time? or were there a series of bullies?

It was more of a group bullying situation... tag team if you will. ("Hey, I'm kinda tired today, you wanna take care of Steve for me at recess?" "Sure thing, bud, take it easy.")

lumberjim · 03-30-2009, 06:00 PM

I guess maybe I remind dar of the guy or guys that bullied him?

DanaC · 03-30-2009, 06:06 PM

I must admit, I got a similar impression to Dar's from your original comment on victims, Lj. I'm glad that wasn't what you meant, and clearly it's something that could be taken to mean a number of different things.

Have you considered that rather than reminding anybody of bullies they may or may not have encountered, your comments instead appeared to belittle the problem of bullying and place responsibility for that bullying onto the victim instead of the bully. That you did not necessarily mean that doesn't change the fact that a number of people read it that way. Mainly people who'd experienced bullying. Not because they're super sensitive to being bullied, or that they considered you to be like the bullies, just because it's a kick in the teeth to have something so fundamental belittled and your experience of it disparaged. Intentionally or not.

Undertoad · 03-30-2009, 06:11 PM

Oh yeah I was also bullied briefly as a Senior in college, by some guys in my dorm hallway. That one never made any sense to me. I was willing to fight back, at that point I was not victimizable. But I would have been murdered in hand-to-hand combat with the guys doing it. So after about four ridiculous incidents, I fought back with a BB gun, spring loaded, looked like a hand gun. That only made them madder, until one guy actually threatened to kill me with a baseball bat, I mean bat in hand headed for my door, and had to be talked down. At that point everything stopped.

In the semester that followed, three things got most of the guys actually into my favor.

One was that I smoked the highest quality weed they'd ever had, and I would talk at length with them about bong additives. They were convinced that milk was the ideal bong water, because it made the smoke smoother. I pointed out that the fats in the milk would leech some of the THC from the smoke. They were happy to receive this tip. I was happy not to have to deal with the unusual stink combination of bong water plus spoiled milk.

Two, after they egged my door, I repainted it... with the address on the door written in huge letters in spray paint. It looked somewhat ghetto, but memorable. "I live at 100 Mohn Hall." "Oh! You're that guy!" The housing director liked me, so I never caught any shit for it.

And three, one day they were golfing with a nine-iron in the corridor. With a real golf ball. I came out and asked - "What are you guys doing?" They replied, "We're carpet golfing." I came back with "Well, always remember to replace your divots." and turned around and closed the door.

They loved that. Although they never did replace their divots.

sugarpop · 03-30-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I've remained quite a while here to try and get a grasp upon what you all are trying to express. I was in some less than cool clubs in school. I didn't have any friends that I know of who were bullied nor was I to the degree that you folks seem to have been. I certainly wasn't any more popular then than I am here on teh Cellar.

I never equated bullying with the vicious harassment that most of you do. I always looked at it more like teasing. This is a completely different and foreign reality to me.

Well there is teasing, and there is bullying. They are really two completely different things, although they may overlap some.

03-30-2009, 12:45 PM	#108
dar512 dar512 is now Pete Zicato Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago suburb Posts: 4,968	I admit that I have a sensitivity to the subject having been bullied in HS, but I think it was natural to read that subtext into Jims post. After reflection, I realized that I had read that into his post. I am still confused, however, by just why he would post that. Do you and Jim believe that this is the most common scenario? That bullies pick on those who set themselves up to be bullied? I don't buy that. It may occur, but I'd be willing to bet it is a very small percentage of the cases. If you think that each person can (on their own) deter being bullied, then you are mistaken. Some of us are smaller or fatter or weaker. __________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." -- Friedrich Schiller

03-30-2009, 02:31 PM	#112
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	i don't know about that either....i think a lot of bullies have been or are being bullied themselves. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-30-2009, 02:34 PM	#113
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	here's a question...... for those of you that were bullied all throughout school....was it the same bully the whole time? or were there a series of bullies? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-30-2009, 03:25 PM	#114
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	One bully, from sixth grade up through senior year. Before she came along I was already a big nerd and not very well liked in general, but she was the only one who made me (and later several of my friends) miserable. And what's more, she encouraged her closest group of friends to be far meaner than they were before she showed up. I believe I've mentioned here before that summer camp was my sanctuary. At summer camp I was popular, because there were no grades and no one had to know what a big smarty pants I secretly was. It had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with the environment we were put in. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

03-30-2009, 03:54 PM	#115
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I've remained quite a while here to try and get a grasp upon what you all are trying to express. I was in some less than cool clubs in school. I didn't have any friends that I know of who were bullied nor was I to the degree that you folks seem to have been. I certainly wasn't any more popular then than I am here on teh Cellar. I never equated bullying with the vicious harassment that most of you do. I always looked at it more like teasing. This is a completely different and foreign reality to me. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

03-30-2009, 01:24 PM	#109
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	I didnt like his statement either considering the topic, but I read it a little differently than you did, dar. I thought he was characterizing the site - how people are there to play up their victim status.

03-30-2009, 06:00 PM	#117
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	I guess maybe I remind dar of the guy or guys that bullied him? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-30-2009, 06:06 PM	#118
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I must admit, I got a similar impression to Dar's from your original comment on victims, Lj. I'm glad that wasn't what you meant, and clearly it's something that could be taken to mean a number of different things. Have you considered that rather than reminding anybody of bullies they may or may not have encountered, your comments instead appeared to belittle the problem of bullying and place responsibility for that bullying onto the victim instead of the bully. That you did not necessarily mean that doesn't change the fact that a number of people read it that way. Mainly people who'd experienced bullying. Not because they're super sensitive to being bullied, or that they considered you to be like the bullies, just because it's a kick in the teeth to have something so fundamental belittled and your experience of it disparaged. Intentionally or not.

03-30-2009, 06:11 PM	#119
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Oh yeah I was also bullied briefly as a Senior in college, by some guys in my dorm hallway. That one never made any sense to me. I was willing to fight back, at that point I was not victimizable. But I would have been murdered in hand-to-hand combat with the guys doing it. So after about four ridiculous incidents, I fought back with a BB gun, spring loaded, looked like a hand gun. That only made them madder, until one guy actually threatened to kill me with a baseball bat, I mean bat in hand headed for my door, and had to be talked down. At that point everything stopped. In the semester that followed, three things got most of the guys actually into my favor. One was that I smoked the highest quality weed they'd ever had, and I would talk at length with them about bong additives. They were convinced that milk was the ideal bong water, because it made the smoke smoother. I pointed out that the fats in the milk would leech some of the THC from the smoke. They were happy to receive this tip. I was happy not to have to deal with the unusual stink combination of bong water plus spoiled milk. Two, after they egged my door, I repainted it... with the address on the door written in huge letters in spray paint. It looked somewhat ghetto, but memorable. "I live at 100 Mohn Hall." "Oh! You're that guy!" The housing director liked me, so I never caught any shit for it. And three, one day they were golfing with a nine-iron in the corridor. With a real golf ball. I came out and asked - "What are you guys doing?" They replied, "We're carpet golfing." I came back with "Well, always remember to replace your divots." and turned around and closed the door. They loved that. Although they never did replace their divots.

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