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Old 05-03-2017, 08:12 AM   #1
Griff
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2/3 of Americans say the Democrats are out of touch

From the Wash Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.763201ff87f9

The DNC is in court arguing that they don't need to provide a fair election process.

Hillary still blames Comey and the Russians.

How can they be out of touch...?

Seriously Dems, fix your shit if you don't want 8 years of this idiot.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:27 AM   #2
Happy Monkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
The DNC is in court arguing that they don't need to provide a fair election process.
That's bad optics, but I do have some sympathy there. I supported Bernie in the primary, but he's not a member of the Democratic Party, and I don't really fault them for supporting the candidate who is actually a member.
Quote:
Hillary still blames Comey and the Russians.
"Still"? That's history. It doesn't become less true over time. In the same interview where she blamed Comey and the Russians, she blamed herself as well. All three were and are to blame.

Though I will say, I suspect that all three were operating under the assumption that Hillary would win, rather than actively supporting Trump per se. Comey wanted to protect himself against Chaffetz' 4-8 years of Hillary investigations, Russia wanted to delegitimize democratic elections in general, and Hillary's status in particular, and Clinton was overconfident.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:35 AM   #3
footfootfoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey View Post
That's bad optics, but I do have some sympathy there. I supported Bernie in the primary, but he's not a member of the Democratic Party, and I don't really fault them for supporting the candidate who is actually a member."Still"? That's history. It doesn't become less true over time. In the same interview where she blamed Comey and the Russians, she blamed herself as well. All three were and are to blame.

Though I will say, I suspect that all three were operating under the assumption that Hillary would win, rather than actively supporting Trump per se. Comey wanted to protect himself against Chaffetz' 4-8 years of Hillary investigations, Russia wanted to delegitimize democratic elections in general, and Hillary's status in particular, and Clinton was overconfident.
Although I agree with you, I can't bring myself to feel sympathy for Hillary C. I really feel we need to be able to vote No Confidence and have a genuine third party.

I expect our country is in the beginnings of a huge correction that will only become clear when reviewed in a century or so.

I have to leave this discussion before I further catastrophize.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:38 AM   #4
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I would put "correction" in quotes. The word implies improvement, but I think in reality it just means a change. Not necessarily a good one.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:55 AM   #5
footfootfoot
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I would put "correction" in quotes. The word implies improvement, but I think in reality it just means a change. Not necessarily a good one.
Yes. Might be good, might not, but in either case it won't be pleasant while we undergo it.
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Old 05-03-2017, 10:56 AM   #6
Happy Monkey
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Although I agree with you, I can't bring myself to feel sympathy for Hillary C.
I was expressing sympathy for DNC officials who supported her in the primary; I don't think they should face any legal liability (absent actual fraud, I don't know details of the case) for supporting the actual Democrat in the Democratic primary.

Especially since I wish the RNC had been as successful as the DNC were in their efforts on that front.

Though I do have some sympathy for Clinton as well. She's an above-average (especially these days) politician who was subject to decades of FUD, where she was personally made the poster child of every problem that people have with all politicians, plus a side order of murder accusations.
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Old 05-03-2017, 11:22 AM   #7
footfootfoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey View Post
I was expressing sympathy for DNC officials who supported her in the primary; I don't think they should face any legal liability (absent actual fraud, I don't know details of the case) for supporting the actual Democrat in the Democratic primary.

Especially since I wish the RNC had been as successful as the DNC were in their efforts on that front.

Though I do have some sympathy for Clinton as well. She's an above-average (especially these days) politician who was subject to decades of FUD, where she was personally made the poster child of every problem that people have with all politicians, plus a side order of murder accusations.
That's fair.
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Old 05-22-2017, 06:43 AM   #8
Griff
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[morning ramble]


Weird thing I noticed when we were in the DC area for the memorial service, Hillary bumper stickers. Seriously, nobody has them here. any archeologist digging around here would have concluded Bernie vs Trump.

We were bitching about Trump at the trailhead Sunday morning before riding. The guys I ride with were both union members, one retired one moved into management. We're all pretty scorched about the threats to the National Parks and the planet generally. They're both Democrats and both have pretty conservative values, in the sense that they want to conserve the good but are willing to discuss change in a way that doesn't further degrade society. They are very much the guys who Hillary can't reach. They don't cling to bibles but are strong on family and support the 2nd Amendment more than Cuomo and less than the NRA.
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:11 AM   #9
xoxoxoBruce
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Sounds like they're what I would picture as average guys, so I'm probably out of touch too.
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