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Old 06-28-2011, 08:51 PM   #2746
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
CEO's could also cease the practice of sending American jobs and manufacturing to the third world. I'm not holding my breath.
Waiting for Boeing to say Fuck off to the NLRB and move it's HQ to Mexico.....
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:32 PM   #2747
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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
No what I have said and always said is the everyone should pay something and no one should pay nothing because they are not invested.
Everybody pays something, so everyone is invested.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:59 PM   #2748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey View Post
Everybody pays something, so everyone is invested.
HM, you and I and several others have reiterated this to Merc over and over, but for him, it simply does not compute.

Here's my theory as to why he refuses to accept the obvious:

(Note: FootFootFoot's Theorem that everything found on the Wikipedia site is a pack of lies has been temporarily suspended in order to bring you the following explanation.)

Merc is not interested in the Social Security component of the FICA tax because it’s regressive. That is, the effective tax rate declines as income rises. The Social Security component of taxes is actually a flat tax for wage levels less than the Social Security Wage Base. In other words, for wage levels above the wage base limit, the absolute dollar amount of tax owed remains constant.

The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities states that three-quarters of taxpayers pay more in payroll taxes than they do in income taxes. FICA is also not collected on unearned income, including interest on savings deposits, stock dividends, and capital gains such as profits from the sale of stock or real estate. The proportion of total income which is exempt from FICA as "unearned income" tends to rise with higher income brackets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal...utions_Act_tax

Now it would seem that Merc is a pleasingly plump cat. Thus, for the above reasons, he is not “invested” in FICA taxes because in his case, they have leveled off and do not go up with any rise in his income, and in the second place, all his stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. are not subject to tax under FICA.

However, if you are an American in or above a certain income bracket, the Federal Income Tax will take increasingly larger chunks of change out of your bank account. This means Merc is invested in income tax rates, but he can’t imagine anybody caring about FICA. Thus, his continued insistence that the majority of Americans are happy to see Congress fling away tax money because if that FICA payment doesn’t pinch Merc why should it pinch anyone else?
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:25 AM   #2749
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I'd say you're on target. The right wing talking heads avoid that idea because it doesn't fit their convenient narrative about what should offend "productive" people. There are a lot of hard-working people who don't make enough money to pay income tax and never will, but they continue to pay FICA. Part of the problem could be the way some Democrats talk about an imaginary Social Security lock box, which gives the nutters cover, pretending it is an insurance vehicle not a government program.
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:59 AM   #2750
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I'll probably regret poking my nose into this thread, but...

Quote:
However, being exempt from income tax does not mean you’re exempt from federal taxes. Everyone who works is liable for payroll taxes, contributions to Medicare and Social Security that come out of every paycheck. There are also excise taxes on some goods and services, most notably the 18.4 cents per gallon tax on gasoline. The Congressional Budget Office found that earners in the lowest quintile, where most of those with no income tax liability fall, shouldered 4.3 percent of the payroll tax burden in 2005 and 11.1 percent of the excise taxes. Their effective tax rate (which is calculated by dividing taxes paid by total income) in those categories, according to the CBO, was in fact significantly higher than the rate of the top quintile, although that top one-fifth of the population had a much higher effective tax rate for individual and corporate income taxes
.

Factcheck.org
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:23 AM   #2751
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Originally Posted by Stormieweather View Post
I'll probably regret poking my nose into this thread, but...
Heh! Just wait until Merc and Classic read your post! Your ass will be grass. I suggest you hide out in Nothingland for a while.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:10 PM   #2752
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No doubt. And that's the reason I don't bother coming here usually.

But as long as I'm hanging my ass out here, I might as well post another one - an opinion piece:

RJ Eskow-Huffington Post

Quote:
The top 25 hedge fund managers in the United States collectively earned $22 billion last year, and yet they have their own cushy set of tax rules. If they operated under the same rules that apply to other people -- police officers, for example, or teachers -- the country could cut its national deficit by as much as $44 billion in the next ten years.

Yeah, why do we have different rules for different people?

I pay my taxes. I'm in the middle tax bracket and work 65-70 hours per week to earn it. I don't mind paying my taxes. I'm not resentful that I have to do so. What I am resentful of are the people and the corporations who don't "need" every last dime, who pay very little or nothing.

I know the very wealthy have no sympathy for those who earn very little, but I've been there, at the bottom. When you earn $200 dollars a week, you can't pay for child care (so you can work), or groceries, never mind a rent payment or car payment. To suggest that they need to pay another 10-20% of gross pay towards taxes is absurd. Snotting about how they should get better jobs is also stupid since the people at the top are the ones paying the $200 dollar a week wages. Who wants to pay the restaurant dishwasher $75k a year? Or pay clerks in your stores $60k? And what would we do if no one washed the dishes, dug the ditches or cleaned the motel rooms? People with wealth take for granted the services provided by those with low incomes.

I don't see anyone thinking beyond the end of their noses here. What happens to families who lose their jobs and homes and become homeless? We just ignore them and thank God it's not US? Let em get sick and die from malnutrition and exposure. No health care for them either. Fuck 'em. There are hundreds of people applying for grocery bagger position, many with degrees and 5 kids. Just praying for a few dollars so their children can eat. They were successful and on track, just a year or three ago. How is the average high school graduate supposed to compete? There is a local elementary school here, where 1 in 4 children are homeless. They live in cars and motels and tents. They have no food, no clothes and no school supplies. Most of their parents aren't homeless due to drugs or laziness or mental illness. They're there because a job poofed and unemployment ended, they lost their home and they had no where to go. But America doesn't give a shit anymore. Who the fuck cares, it's not my problem, is what we say. My money is MY money, those fuckers can work just like me to earn their own money. Every unemployed person I know (and I know quite a few) would LOVE to be out there earning their own money. And no, the very rich are NOT making more jobs with all these tax breaks they get. They're investing that extra money in fucking hedge funds and making even more money. That they can't possibly use and don't need.

You're rich. Get over it.

Hidden social programs for the wealthy ie: tax loopholes.

What really needs to be addressed is government waste and pork projects. Before we take the easy road and cut funding to poor people, we need to address the financial bleeding that goes on in every government in every state and city across the country.

Waste

24% increase in pork over 2010!!! <---just one agency!!


Alright...back to work. I won't be back to this thread, so save your breath.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:00 PM   #2753
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Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Heh! Just wait until Merc and Classic read your post! Your ass will be grass.
Excuse me? This is the second time you have lumped me in with another poster. Please don't include me in your petty little hatefest.
Personally I enjoy reading Stormie's posts and have nothing against her or her opinions whatsoever.

I suggest you hide out in Nothingland.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:01 PM   #2754
classicman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormieweather View Post
Hidden social programs for the wealthy ie: tax loopholes.

What really needs to be addressed is government waste and pork projects. Before we take the easy road and cut funding to poor people, we need to address the financial bleeding that goes on in every government in every state and city across the country.

Waste

24% increase in pork over 2010!!! <---just one agency!!
I couldn't agree more!
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Old 07-01-2011, 04:15 AM   #2755
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Originally Posted by classicman View Post
Excuse me? This is the second time you have lumped me in with another poster. Please don't include me in your petty little hatefest.
Personally I enjoy reading Stormie's posts and have nothing against her or her opinions whatsoever.

I suggest you hide out in Nothingland.
Hey! You have been known to give the occasional scathing reply around here, and you know it.

However, I do realize that you and Merc don't always agree on everything, so I apologize for painting you with the same brush.

And I am not indulging in a "hatefest." I disagree with Merc and have no problem telling him so, but I don't hate him. I called him a "pleasingly plump cat" which is nothing compared to some of the perjoratives that are let fly in this forum.

I don't hate you either even though we disagree on many things.

See you in Nothingland.
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Old 07-01-2011, 10:02 PM   #2756
classicman
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I have replied to a couple people at times with a "scathing reply" I do not deny that, but they are few and very specific.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:41 AM   #2757
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormieweather View Post
I'll probably regret poking my nose into this thread, but...
Only people who buy gas pay essentially pay a gas tax. Many people do not drive or own cars. It really is a hidden tax because all forms of petrol are taxed, albeit at different rates, and on top of that states tax it again, on top of the Federal Excise Tax. It is a perfect example of how screwed up our system is because it does not go to support the production or purchase of oil, it goes into the general system. Sure everyone pays to Medicare and SS. I admitted that early on. That is not the portion of Federal Tax that I have been discussing.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:04 AM   #2758
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormieweather View Post
No doubt. And that's the reason I don't bother coming here usually.

But as long as I'm hanging my ass out here, I might as well post another one - an opinion piece:

RJ Eskow-Huffington Post




Yeah, why do we have different rules for different people?
Great question, really. So tell Obama and his other apologists to shut the fuck up and stop putting people who make 150k or 250k in the same group of people who are making billions, ok? Because that is part of this game the President and his minions are playing with people like you. He is starting a class war and you are falling for it.

Quote:
I pay my taxes. I'm in the middle tax bracket and work 65-70 hours per week to earn it. I don't mind paying my taxes. I'm not resentful that I have to do so.
Yea me too. Only I work more hours than that.

Quote:
What I am resentful of are the people and the corporations who don't "need" every last dime, who pay very little or nothing.
And I resent people how take about small business owners or others who make money through hard work, carry the bulk of the burden of paying taxes and try to lump them in the group that pays no taxes and makes a hell of a lot more than someone in the groups where Obama wants to start taxing the shit out of them.

Quote:
I know the very wealthy have no sympathy for those who earn very little, but I've been there, at the bottom.
Yea me too. But I also think if that flat tax gave people the social programs they wanted they would pay it.

Sorry Newsweek is totally got it screwed up. If I used the statistical measure of median on any comparison I can pretty much make my arguments where I want them to go. It has little validity when you use it to compare standards and costs of living in San Francisco to other parts of the nation. A very weak article.

Great article about how [b]everybody[/] currently benefits from taxes collected and tax breaks available.

Quote:
What really needs to be addressed is government waste and pork projects. Before we take the easy road and cut funding to poor people, we need to address the financial bleeding that goes on in every government in every state and city across the country.
I agree which is why I am all over the "Stimulus Bill" that made us Hundreds of Thousands of "Shovel Ready Jobs".
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:27 AM   #2759
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Merc is not interested in the Social Security component of the FICA tax because it’s regressive. That is, the effective tax rate declines as income rises. The Social Security component of taxes is actually a flat tax for wage levels less than the Social Security Wage Base. In other words, for wage levels above the wage base limit, the absolute dollar amount of tax owed remains constant.
How do you know what I am or am not interested in? I am very interested in these programs because I have been paying into them since I was 15 years old.

Quote:
Now it would seem that Merc is a pleasingly plump cat.
Ok, define that. What is the ceiling income that places one in this group of cats? Where does it start, where does it end?

Quote:
...and in the second place, all his stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. are not subject to tax under FICA.
What investments do I have and where are they invested?

Quote:
However, if you are an American in or above a certain income bracket, the Federal Income Tax will take increasingly larger chunks of change out of your bank account. This means Merc is invested in income tax rates, but he can’t imagine anybody caring about FICA. Thus, his continued insistence that the majority of Americans are happy to see Congress fling away tax money because if that FICA payment doesn’t pinch Merc why should it pinch anyone else?
Why would a pinch at one level be any different from a pinch at another level when the bite becomes bigger and bigger as income increases, thereby placing the majority of all income tax burden on a small group (minority) and little to none on another (majority) group? That is wealth redistribution and I don't support it.

So the truth comes out. This is not about taxes at all, it is about wealth envy. Make it a clash of classes. Rich versus Poor. Us versus Them. This is the Obama re-election strategy. In one of his latest speeches he mentioned corporate jet company owners 4 times in comparison to poor children. If you took all of the money every one of them earned this year it would not compare to the spending by this Administration in a single week.

Something is going to give and it will be painful for everybody at the current rate of spending by this Administration.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:29 AM   #2760
TheMercenary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Monkey View Post
Everybody pays something, so everyone is invested.
Fail. If I pay $1 and you pay $100 and we get the same benefit, you are invested $99 more than I am.
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