(V'ger) Steri-lize....steri-lize...(/V'ger)

[Happy Monkey]

Graham Stewart, executive director of the John Howard Society, agrees.

"I think it unlikely that any government could come up with legislation that is justified to withhold voting rights," he says. "I hope the government realizes that. In a democracy, the voters pick the politicians; the politicians don’t pick the voters."

Good quote.

[lookout123]

Originally posted by Carbonated_Brains
Damn right, they should be allowed to vote!

ok, just curious. why do you think prisoners should maintain this right?

i think the reason we don't let them vote is that they are in a situation where others exert control over them. hypothetically a warden could cause all of his prisoners to vote for x candidate in exchange for some privilege. that could totally skew the results.

edit: added 2nd paragraph.

[Carbonated_Brains]

They should be able to vote because no person is in ANY position to withdraw voting rights from another citizen.

A democracy is based on the voice of the people, and as soon as somebody has the ability to snuff that voice, regardless of whose voice it is, democracy has failed.

These people are in jail, they're not dead. As long as someone is alive, they have rights as a human being.

[Lady Sidhe]

Let's see....the prisoners make their "living" breaking laws...so let's give them the right to elect the people who both make the laws and enforce them?

Riiiiiiiiiight....

[Carbonated_Brains]

Regardless of how "uncomfortable" it makes your regular Joe.

[lookout123]

don't you think it would be pretty easy for a guard to induce people under his control to vote the way he likes?

and besides, they are in prison for a reason. there are consequences to actions.

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by Carbonated_Brains
They should be able to vote because no person is in ANY position to withdraw voting rights from another citizen.

A democracy is based on the voice of the people, and as soon as somebody has the ability to snuff that voice, regardless of whose voice it is, democracy has failed.

These people are in jail, they're not dead. As long as someone is alive, they have rights as a human being.

A democracy should be based on the voice of the people who uphold that society, not the ones who prey on it.

These people are in jail. While they are in jail, they should not have the right to affect the society in any way. The reason they're in jail is because they have affected society adversely. Therefore they should be stripped of all but the right to food, water, clothing, and shelter. When they've paid society back and are once again free, then they should regain the rights of a citizen.


Sidhe

[Carbonated_Brains]

Those consequences do not squelch the basic right of human beings, as much as some would like them to.

I don't care how much you hate prisoners, you don't get to stamp on their rights as human beings.

[Carbonated_Brains]

Sidhe, when you became batshit crazy, did you hear a snap?

What about all the people in jail in China for believing in Democracy?

What about the people we put in jail for minor drug offences? Smoke a joint and you're out of the loop? Or murderers who are WRONGLY convicted and thrown in jail?

Being in a building you can't get out of does not make a person a piece of shit on your boot, Sidhe.

Get off your horse.

[Lady Sidhe]

Nowhere have I said that I "hated" prisoners. However, prison is supposed to be punishment. While they are there, they should be afforded the aforementioned basic rights. The point of being in prison is to remove the person from society. If that's so, then they should be removed completely, until they've served their sentence. They shouldn't have the rights bestowed upon the free members of society until they are once again free members of society.

[lookout123]

Originally posted by Carbonated_Brains
I don't care how much you hate prisoners, you don't get to stamp on their rights as human beings.

i don't hate prisoners. at the current time i have a cousin and an uncle in prison for different reasons. they chose to break the law. they have lost their rights in many areas.
since the idea of a guard or warden exerting undue influence on prisoner's votes, how about this one:

politician in area with a large number of prisoners runs for office with one of his ideas being that he will free prisoners that fall within categories x,y, and z. prisoners would undoubtedly vote for this person. they should not have the option to influence this election because that is basic bribery. "you get me into office, i'll get you out of jail"
bad idea.

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by Carbonated_Brains
Sidhe, when you became batshit crazy, did you hear a snap?

i think it was more of a mild burbling. rofl.......funny, carb, funny

[lumberjim]

JAIL...A player lands in Jail when. . . (1.) his token lands on the space marked "Go to Jail"; (2.) he draws a card marked "Go to Jail"; (3.) he throws doubles three times in succession.

When a player is sent to Jail he cannot collect $200 salary in that move since, regardless of where his token is on the board, he must move it directly into Jail. A player's turn ends when he is sent to Jail.

If a player is not "sent to Jail" but in the ordinary course of play lands on that space, he is "Just Visiting", incurs no penalty, and moves ahead in the usual manner on his next turn.

A player gets out of Jail by... (1.) throwing doubles on any of his next three turns. If he succeeds in doing this he immediately moves forward the number of spaces shown by his doubles throw. Even though he has thrown doubles he does not take another turn; (2.) using the "Get Out of Jail Free" card if he has it; (3.) purchasing the "Get Out of Jail Free" card from another player and playing it; (4.) paying a fine of $50 before he rolls the dice on either of his next two turns

If the player does not throw doubles by his third turn he must pay the $50 fine. He then gets out of Jail and immediately moves forward the number of spaces shown by his throw.

Even though he is in Jail, a player may buy or sell property, buy or sell houses and hotels and collect rents.

this is from the official parker bros monopoly rules. it is not a large leap from buying and selling property to voting. We sold a car to a guy in jail once. his wife had power of attorney. they paid cash.

[Lady Sidhe]

You're acting as if you assume that everyone in jail is innocent. Not everyone is.

Like I said before, prison is supposed to be a place people don't want to go to....a punishment. But they have more privileges than law-abiding citizens do:

free medical care
free law library and representation
three meals a day, a place to sleep, clothes to wear
a gym
cable tv

Hell, I can't afford that stuff, yet they get it?
We treat our prisoners better than we treat our homeless. That's bullshit.

Prison is a punishment, period. They get enough perks as it is, especially federal prisoners. They shouldn't have the privilege of voting.

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by lumberjim


this is from the official parker bros monopoly rules. it is not a large leap from buying and selling property to voting. We sold a car to a guy in jail once. his wife had power of attorney. they paid cash.

Then let their wives vote.:p