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Old 12-26-2002, 12:26 PM   #1
Undertoad
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12/26/2002: Korean peninsula



This was presented on the web log of "Corsair the Rational Pirate" which I currently don't have an URL for, so if you were particularly motivated you could find it. Corsair didn't include any further information on the image.

This is a heat and light signature of the Korean peninsula.

Two days ago I took faux credit when U.S. defense head Donald Rumsfeld talked about what the Korean night sky looks like. (South Korea is all vibrantly lit up, while North Korea is entirely dark.) I had previously cut up the "night sky of the world" image to feature Korea, and I thought I was being clever, but anyone who looked at that part of the world would notice the same thing.

It's all a very interesting lesson in what happens when your country is controlled by socialistic megalomaniacal (?) morons.

By many accounts, the Korean people have a fairly workaholic culture -- similar to the Japanese, early Americans or modern immigrant Americans. They view work as a positive, desireable thing. Neither Korea nor Japan enjoy a remarkable wealth in natural resources, and yet both became quite wealthy once their people had the freedom to be productive.

All of which makes North Korea's nuclear proliferation even more incredibly outrageous. Partly because North Korea lets its people suffer without heat or light or even food, when just letting them loose would result in another South Korea - a boon for the world.

But mostly because it means that the battle lines of the world are increasingly between productive and unproductive countries -- and the unproductive countries have stronger political control of their armies and their missiles, and more will to wreak havoc because the peace-loving public doesn't have a say.
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Old 12-26-2002, 02:51 PM   #2
jaguar
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socialistic?
Please.
Can you not confuse socialism and stalinist dictatorships? Not that hard. And since i'm feeling nitpickey, the correct term is political will not political control.
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Old 12-27-2002, 07:50 AM   #3
sca1111
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What's the large heat signature over the Korea Strait at the bottom right of the picture?
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Old 12-27-2002, 08:24 AM   #4
Leus
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Socialism doesn't imply stalinism nor marxism. Here in Chile we have a Socialist president, yet he managed to sign a free trade agreement with USA and EU (that's pretty capitalistic, if you ask me )

sca111: I believe that's Hiroshima.
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Old 12-27-2002, 08:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leus
..., yet he managed to sign a free trade agreement with USA and EU (that's pretty capitalistic, if you ask me )
Actually, this guy named Benito from Italy had a name for state managed capitalism, hmmm what was that?
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Old 12-27-2002, 10:42 AM   #6
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Originally posted by Griff
Actually, this guy named Benito from Italy had a name for state managed capitalism, hmmm what was that?
Heh, trade agreements have nothing to do with fascism...
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Old 12-27-2002, 12:19 PM   #7
Griff
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leus

Heh, trade agreements have nothing to do with fascism...
That would depend on the fine print wouldn't it. Fascism isn't all jackboots and midnight knocks on the door. Its also about protecting favored businesses and owners, by attaching them to the state. In the US, we've nationalized agriculture, steel, timber, and other industries at different times. Anytime we (Americans) sign a "free-trade" agreement that runs more than a couple pages its hardly free and reflects the favored positions of "essential" industries. Of course I shouldn't lecture a Chilean on that stuff, should I?
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Old 12-29-2002, 02:06 AM   #8
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Re: 12/26/2002: Korean peninsula

Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
All of which makes North Korea's nuclear proliferation even more incredibly outrageous. Partly because North Korea lets its people suffer without heat or light or even food, when just letting them loose would result in another South Korea - a boon for the world.
And then comes Kim Jung Il who wants to address his countries ills. He makes overtures to the world to give up on nuclear development in exchange for economic help and oppurtuntiy. No problem. A president named Clinton took him up on the oppurtunity. An agreement almost completely destroyed by a Republican dominated Congress that cancels the oil that N Korea was promised in exchange for terminating a plutonium processing operation.

Then a mental midget president for reasons not based upon logic instead declares N Korea as an 'axis of evil'. Hard enough for Kim Jung Il to keep his extremists in line. Now Washington is threatening. And so N Korea moved into projects that they can use their educated talent in - processing uranium (which was not in violation of any agreement between N Korea and the UN) and making a small missile for export. The missile is a good exportable product even in demand by American allies such as Yemen.

This same administration that previously advocated military attacks on China now cuts off all oil to Korea. What are they suppose to do. Give up and cry? The smart politician uses the unprocessed plutonium rods as bargining chips AND fires up a nuclear reactor to create electricity. Nothing extraordinary here. Any country in N Korea's position would do same - especially when confronted by a country that now advocates war as the solution to any problem.

This whole Korean mess is directly traceable to the mental midget administration of George Jr. Same president that has destroyed relations with virutally every nation in the world. Had George Jr not done the stupid 'axis of evil' nonsense, then it is not likely we would be here.

A country more familiar with the situation - S Korea - let it be known who they regard as creating this mess. An incumbant president sitting on a strong economy, but who sided with George Jr, was kicked out of office by a South Korean population that wants to distance themselves from America. A Clinton America was responsible - therefore N Korea was slowly joining the world. A George Jr America is the threat to peace in that region. South Koreans blame the US for a complete failure of peace talks with the North - as made obvious by their elections. (Germans said same only a few months ago). And since Koreans get the whole story, then who would know better.

South Koreans are correct. But Americans know so little about N Korea's position or even promised made to N Korea. One senior administration offical openly lied - yes boldface, up you ass lied - and said the Korean electric system could not support the power provided by that nuclear reactor. Many Americans are so technically ignorant of numbers to even agree with that liar. Any electric system can support 5 megawatts. N Korea is so short of energy supplies that 5 Megawatts is absolutely essential to life support. So why does that administration official lie. Because he knows he can to an Amerian public that does not know what is happening in Korea.
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Old 12-29-2002, 09:58 AM   #9
quzah
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I heard the other day that North Korea was moving a few machine guns around the DMZ, and moving troops into the general area. "Self", I said, "this is brilliant. While GW is fucking off in Iraq, and since he's already said he isn't going to war with N.K., what a simply divine oportunity to take back S.K."

Quzah.
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Old 12-29-2002, 10:03 AM   #10
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The two word solution to North Korea: Jimmy Carter
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Old 12-29-2002, 10:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
originally posted by Undertoad
This was presented on the web log of "Corsair the Rational Pirate" which I currently don't have an URL for, so if you were particularly motivated you could find it.
Corsair the Rational Pirate.

Yep. Motivation. That's what I'm all about.
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Old 12-29-2002, 11:10 AM   #12
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Tell us, tw, why would N. Korea have to kick out the IAEA inspectors and disable their surveillance cameras if their intentions were to generate peaceful electricity to support that power grid?

The intended effort is not to generate electricity but to process SPENT nuclear fuel into material for 4 new nuclear bombs. (N Korea already has 2 of them.)

A few months ago you were a fan of globalism and not a fan of unilateral action. So why does Kim Jung Il become your personal hero when China, Europe, Russia, the US, and Japan are all demanding that N Korea cut this shit out?

Bush called N Korea part of the axis of evil 11 months ago; they began their current work 4 years ago.
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Old 12-30-2002, 02:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Undertoad
Tell us, tw, why would N. Korea have to kick out the IAEA inspectors and disable their surveillance cameras if their intentions were to generate peaceful electricity to support that power grid?

The intended effort is not to generate electricity but to process SPENT nuclear fuel into material for 4 new nuclear bombs. (N Korea already has 2 of them.)
If N Korea wanted to build plutonium bombs, then they would not waste time putting rods into a reactor. What our right wing extremists leaders forgets to mention is that Korea already has plutonium inside those reactor rods. They don't need the reactor to create plutonium. They already have plenty. Instead, Koreans are moving those rods into the reactor - where they would generate electricity. So that the world will understand N Korea's point, those UN inspectors were permitted full access to what the Koreans were doing. N Korea even permitted a third inspector to arrive and watch. What do those inspectors say? N Korea is making no effort to make bomb material. Instead, N Korea is using that potential bomb material to make electricity AND loudly making a point that they could do more if an extremist US keeps pushing them to do so.

How to keep ratcheting up the heat on an extemist, militant, American position? First remove cameras. No response. Next restart the reactor. No response. Next step was threatened long ago: ask those inspectors to leave - but not until tommorrow. It is these little details that our right wing extremist leaders forgets to mention. The Korean message is quite clear. They want to be treated fairly - or will become a threat. They wanted inspectors to stay around to report what they are doing. With no cooperative US response, then even those UN inspectors will have to leave - to ratchet up tensions.

George Jr's people instead have twisted facts by forgetting key details. George Jr's people want you to fear - which is how they promote themselves.

1) They tell us - a direct lie - that the Korean electric grid could not absorb 5 megawatts. They lie so that American will call N Koreans devils rather than see the crisis as it really is. Promote fear.

2) They tell us that Koreans possess plutonium to make bombs - forgetting to mention rods are instead being put back into the reactor to make electricity. Why mention that fact when the US administration's position is to first advocate fear and threaten war.

3) They say the reactor is being started to make plutonium - forgetting to mention that plutonium for as many as four or five bombs already exists in those rods.

4) They forget to mention how we kept renigning on promises - especially to deliver oil - which only empowers militant extremists in N Korea at the expense of moderates.

5) Only the US is making overt demands on N Korea. China, Japan, and S Korea are concerned. Both Japan and S Korea continued to deliver promised oil until an extremist US government this weekend demanded all oil stop. Moreso, China, S Korea, et al are concerned about how George Jr aggrevated this entire crisis especially with his 'axis of evil' nonsense. Even Japan has distanced itself from the US position. George Jr had declared N Korea as an 'axis of evil' without any knowledge of events that would justify that opinion. This crisis caught the adminstration by total surprise because 'axis of evil' was declared without any supporting facts.

Now this administration is in a bind. Having been so militant and extremist, this adminstration has little manuvering room beyond military confrontation. Solution by negotiation would be considered backing down - because George Jr's people were saber rattling just like over a silly spy plane. George Jr's administration made this crisis inevitable with his silly 'axis of evil' position - which was made without any supporting facts.

What has concerned S Korea, Japan, China and Russia more? That the US is driving militant N Korean extremists into positions of power because US rhetoric is 'enemies in every closet'. Fear is the greatest threat to world peace. Fear is what this extremist president advocates repeatedly.

China, et al are not openly demanding N Korea stop the shit. They only remind N Korea that its current actions will create unstable and dangerous situations. If reading right wing adminstration press releases, then yes, you see China, Japan, et al making demands on N Korea - demands that really do not exist in that extreme. From China, et al is a sigh of exasperation - that this crisis was made inevitable by extremist right wing American rhetoric.

Of course the George Jr administration does not see it that way. They are right wing extremists who fear and see threats everywhere - ie an anti-ballistic missile system that does not even work. As a result, American extremists see N Korea as the antagonist. After all, the mighty US could not have created this crisis. We are the good guys according to right wing rhetoric.

Those who see things in black and white see a monolithic N Korea intent on all evil. Therefore lies are acceptable, such as Korea could not absorb electricity from that reactor. George Jr also sees Iran in the same way. In the meantime, domestic forces in both countries struggle to determine whose agenda will win power. An extremist US government has no idea that they play right into the hands of militant extremists in both countries. American right wing extremist attitudes not only tried to get the US into a shooting war with China. It also empowers militant N Korean extremists into positions of power. As a result, even moderate N Koreans must now endorse the restarting of a nuclear reactor.

If looking from a perspective other than the extremist US administration, then one sees that N Koreans had no other solution to their failing economic condition - other than civil war.

In the meantime, the naive actually buy into a mental midget president's nonsense that the reactor is restarted to make plutonium. Bull. Ignored facts make that an obvious lie. Facts that a US president forgets to mention; to promote fear. If N Koreans were making plutionium, then they would not bother putting those rods into a reactor. They would have started, 'immediately', a six+ month process of extracting plutonium from those rods. Just a little detail that this right wing administration forgets to mention.


There is no statement that calls Kim Jung Il a personal hero. It is stated either out of background ignorance, or as an insult. What is Kim Jung Il 's personal opinion? That is not clear. What is clear is that George Jr has forced Kim Jung Il with no other choice but to side with N Korea's militant extremists. Of course. George Jr would never understand that. He displays ignorance of the world as Johnson did with N Viet Nam. George Jr's solution, like Johnson, is to solve all problems by outright force and military threats. Both men cannot see a bigger picture and could not negotiate a solution.

There was once a man named Kennedy who kept asking , "But what is he thinking", and "What are his domestic political opponents forcing him to do". Therefore we avoided sending the 1st Marine division into certain death - a nuclear holocaust on Cuban beaches. This reasoning is too complex for a man like George Jr - which is why George Jr's administration solution to everything is rattle sabers and threaten war. That constant saber rattling is what most worries Russia, Japan, S Korea, and China. The South Korean people told us that - bluntly - in their recent political elections. Japan has long since been saying same by silence - distancing themselves from American positions. But too many Americans only see the world per Rumsfled, Wolfovich, and other right wing extremists.

This crisis was made inevitable by the militant international politics of George Jr. That extremist militancy is what most worries Japan, S Korea, China, and Russia. An intelligent president such as Clinton would have seen the opening to solve this problem by political negotiation. Clinton did just that previously, which is why we were not talking about war in 1994. But fear, threats, and military force is only what this George Jr administration understands. When has George Jr used negotiation to solve problems? This is a serious question. EVery solution involves fear and military threats. Hell. He would have even gone to war over a silly spy plane! Right wing extremists could not see a negotiated solution if you put it where this president once put his cocaine.

Last edited by tw; 12-30-2002 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 12-30-2002, 02:46 PM   #14
Undertoad
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Thank you for not answering my question whatsoever.
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Old 12-30-2002, 03:38 PM   #15
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where exactly did you get infomation solidly stating N korea has two working nucler weapons?
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