The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Politics

Politics Where we learn not to think less of others who don't share our views

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-02-2011, 10:15 PM   #31
footfootfoot
To shreds, you say?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in the house and on the street
Posts: 18,116
Dude, he's not dead. He's pining for the fjords.

And Jill rocks.
__________________
the internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously? - Her Fobs
footfootfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 10:39 PM   #32
Nirvana
Back in 10
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,684
Quote:
Originally Posted by footfootfoot View Post

And Jill rocks.
Definitely understated
__________________
Speaking simply... do not confuse this with having a simple mind.
Nirvana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:01 PM   #33
Urbane Guerrilla
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,250
You have won nothing, Jill, and you're not going to. Sure, you're stubborn. Sure, you pursue subadult ideas. Those shall not win the day for you, handily nor otherwise. Fanatics collide with me and they break.

Let's start in on the nature of the Left, shall we?

Quote:
The large number of rich Leftists suggests that, for them, envy is secondary. They are directly driven by hatred and scorn for many of the other people that they see about them. Hatred of others can be rooted in many things, not only in envy. But the haters come together as the Left.


Leftists hate the world around them and want to change it: the people in it most particularly. Conservatives just want to be left alone to make their own decisions and follow their own values.


The failure of the Soviet experiment has definitely made the American Left more vicious and hate-filled than they were. The plain failure of what passed for ideas among them has enraged rather than humbled them.
Particularly this last is whence the opposition to the Obama Administration and its agenda springs. Even the temperately-read words of the usual sort of Obama speech, exemplified in the "clinging bitterly to their guns and their religion" speech, show a profound disdain for people who just plain don't merit disdain. It mischaracterizes them as bitter, then abuses the practitioners of the vaccination of the body politic against genocide -- or do the JPFO have it all wrong?

I doubt that last in particular.

Being rather right of center myself allows and causes me to be whole -- unbroken. I am not here to lead you astray, Jill. I am here to do the very opposite. Indeed, such is my character that I could no other, all right? You don't have to like it right off, you don't have to believe me right off. But you will come to a somewhat uncomfortable awareness that I do rather well, because of what I hew to; because I have a clear understanding of who and what the monsters are. This is a faculty the Left -- well, it is kindest to say that they lack it.

This will, I think, be a great deal of fun.
__________________
Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.
Urbane Guerrilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:02 PM   #34
ZenGum
Doctor Wtf
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post
OT but I think worth quoting, Michael Graham on la Garofalo:

Quote:
Pew Research did. A 2009 study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life asked Americans about their beliefs in supernatural phenomena like psychic powers, astrology, and reincarnation. . . and that some objects contain "spiritual energy."
The results showed liberal Democrats about twice as likely to believe in this stuff than the conservatives they despise so loudly or the independents.
Did they also ask questions about belief in eating the magic biscuits that are actually the body of the son of the bearded sky-daddy who made the world in six days and carries you off to the cloudland when you die?

Or was the study as one-sided as you present it to be?
__________________
Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008.
Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.
ZenGum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:11 PM   #35
footfootfoot
To shreds, you say?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in the house and on the street
Posts: 18,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill View Post
The facts are, when viewed through the lens of reality...
ay, there's the rub...
__________________
the internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously? - Her Fobs
footfootfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:35 PM   #36
Urbane Guerrilla
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,250
Y'know what, Zen? I eat wafers. Free wine on Sundays, too. (If the phrase sounds familiar but you can't put your finger on it, Google is your friend and Bob's your ungulate.)

And I was raised Unitarian if I was raised anything. I like to think the experience of youth plus that of maturer years gives me a broad and sensible perspective.

Atheism is much too cramped for me. Too much a belief in unbelief so its final reward seems so... picayune. Perhaps the most sturdily rational, or rationalist, atheist I ever heard of was Robert A. Heinlein -- a fellow I'd happily consign to Heaven.

Or is it righter to reckon of those who are atheistic "Verily, they have received their reward."

The list of despots who behaved all their lives as if there were no afterlife that might possibly be influenced by their deeds in this life is long and written in dried blood: Jenghis Khan, Mao Tse Tung, Josef Stalin and his enabler Vladimr Il'ych you-know-who, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler. Those are just the high points. Their nearest real approach to God seems to have been when they were swearing at somebody. There's always that whiff of dead folks around the anti-believers who operate on a large scale, who very often do not discourage their followers to worship them, mortal men, instead of something more abstract and with the right touch of the supernal.

What the small-scale antibelievers seem to lack looks like the opportunity to slaughter like the big boys.

Now I follow a trinitarian way, to the point of being an Episcopalian lay minister, duly licensed by the Diocese of Los Angeles. There's a lot of... brain going on in the Anglican Communion. You know that's the kind of thing I like.

The difference between religious thinking and superstitious (or magickal) thinking seems to me to be in what you do with it once you've thought it.
__________________
Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.
Urbane Guerrilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:52 PM   #37
Fair&Balanced
Operations Operative
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post
...

Being rather right of center myself allows and causes me to be whole -- unbroken. I am not here to lead you astray, Jill. I am here to do the very opposite. Indeed, such is my character that I could no other, all right? You don't have to like it right off, you don't have to believe me right off. But you will come to a somewhat uncomfortable awareness that I do rather well, because of what I hew to; because I have a clear understanding of who and what the monsters are. This is a faculty the Left -- well, it is kindest to say that they lack it.

This will, I think, be a great deal of fun.
Or perhaps you are just a legend in your own mind.

A strange mind indeed to quote Michael Graham, who suggests that all of Islam is a terrorist organization.

Leaves one to wonder if he was speaking about himself and those who quote him when he said:, "The problem is not extremism."

Right. The problem is fear-mongering, whether its an "islamofacist" hiding under our beds or Obama taking away your guns.
Fair&Balanced is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2011, 11:54 PM   #38
morethanpretty
Thats "Miss Zipper Neck" to you.
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: little town (but not the littlest) in texas
Posts: 2,957
Witch hunts all across Europe and US, US Slavery, Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition

Just a few of the atrocities that Christians (who did believe in the after life) committed.
__________________
Addicts may suck dick for coke, but love came up with the idea to put a dick in there to begin with.
-Jack O'Brien
morethanpretty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 12:14 AM   #39
Fair&Balanced
Operations Operative
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post
...

The difference between religious thinking and superstitious (or magickal) thinking seems to me to be in what you do with it once you've thought it.
You mean like a good Christian like likely presidential candidate Mike Huckabee who links gay sex to bestiality and abortion to slavery and who wants to amend the Constitution to reflect those views?
Fair&Balanced is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 12:46 AM   #40
SamIam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Not here
Posts: 2,655
Y'all are so cute trying to sustain a rational dialog with UG!
SamIam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 12:53 AM   #41
Fair&Balanced
Operations Operative
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Y'all are so cute trying to sustain a rational dialog with UG!
Just testing the findings of a recent study in the UK that suggests people with right wing views have a larger area of the brain associated with fear.
Fair&Balanced is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 08:28 AM   #42
infinite monkey
Person who doesn't update the user title
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 13,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced View Post
Just testing the findings of a recent study in the UK that suggests people with right wing views have a larger area of the brain associated with fear.
SRLSY!
infinite monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 12:34 PM   #43
Jill
Colonist Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Redondo Beach, CA (transplant from St. Louis, MO)
Posts: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinite monkey View Post

A hundred times over. I'm still chuckling.

You rock!
Quote:
Originally Posted by footfootfoot View Post

Dude, he's not dead. He's pining for the fjords.

And Jill rocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post

Definitely understated
I think it's you guys who rock! You sure made my day!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post

You have won nothing, Jill, and you're not going to. Sure, you're stubborn. Sure, you pursue subadult ideas. Those shall not win the day for you, handily nor otherwise. Fanatics collide with me and they break.
I pursue "subadult" ideas? That's hilarious, considering you're the one who suggested that being a Beauty Queen was somehow relevant to political superiority.

Interesting that you wish to "break" me, as opposed to convince me. Personally, I'd just like for you to learn a few things, and perhaps acknowledge a few truths, even if you don't come around fully to my way of thinking, politically. Why would you want to "break" me? That's not very respectful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post

Let's start in on the nature of the Left, shall we?
How about let's not. This thread is about the death of Osama bin Laden. I'd say it's already been hijacked enough, wouldn't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post

Particularly this last is whence the opposition to the Obama Administration and its agenda springs. Even the temperately-read words of the usual sort of Obama speech, exemplified in the "clinging bitterly to their guns and their religion" speech, show a profound disdain for people who just plain don't merit disdain. It mischaracterizes them as bitter, then abuses the practitioners of the vaccination of the body politic against genocide -- or do the JPFO have it all wrong?
On the other hand, I simply cannot allow a misquote to go without correction. It is you who is doing the mischaracterizing here. Then-candidate Obama did not say that anyone was clinging bitterly to their guns and their religion, and certainly not within a speech. And it certainly wasn't in an attempt to marginalize anyone.

Barack Obama was discussing the reason that so many people in "small town America" are bitter -- and they are, let's be honest.
"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not."
Do you deny this truth? Is this not an accurate depiction of many small towns throughout the Midwest, where jobs have dried up and nothing more than lip service has been paid to those who have been suffering through the demise of their livelihoods?

And that, friend Guerrilla, is why Barack Obama then said, "And it's not surprising then they get bitter."

It's not surprising, is it? It doesn't surprise me that people who've been "left behind" by technology and job outsourcing and politicians entering into treaties and working trade deals that have contributed to their towns crumbling around them, would be bitter. I'd be bitter! Wouldn't you?

And what do people who have become bitter about how the government has in many ways orchestrated their devolution towards poverty do, when they don't have the political clout to effect change in the big ways that would rebuild their communities?
"They cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...enophobia.html
That isn't even remotely how you depicted his statement, is it?

I don't mind debating you on facts. You're certainly well within your rights to want to counter the assessment Barack Obama made, based on what he actually said. But it's impossible to have a reasonable debate with someone when they aren't debating realities, but made-up stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post

Being rather right of center myself allows and causes me to be whole -- unbroken. I am not here to lead you astray, Jill. I am here to do the very opposite. Indeed, such is my character that I could no other, all right? You don't have to like it right off, you don't have to believe me right off. But you will come to a somewhat uncomfortable awareness that I do rather well, because of what I hew to; because I have a clear understanding of who and what the monsters are. This is a faculty the Left -- well, it is kindest to say that they lack it.
I have no doubt that you do very well. I'm quite certain that you attribute that to how you hew politically. I contend, however, that you are completely unaware of who and what the monsters really are, or you would be fighting to save America from them instead of embracing them while watching your beloved country crumble around your ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla View Post

This will, I think, be a great deal of fun.
For one of us, perhaps. I'm not sure it's who you think it is, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by footfootfoot View Post

ay, there's the rub...
Indeed. As exposed above. If one doesn't view the political landscape through the lens of reality, the world becomes distorted and no problems can ever be resolved, nor can agreement ever be reached.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post

Y'all are so cute trying to sustain a rational dialog with UG!
I may tire of it at some point, but for now, I'm willing to engage him, at a minimum to show him that he has formulated opinions based on faulty information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced View Post

Just testing the findings of a recent study in the UK that suggests people with right wing views have a larger area of the brain associated with fear.
Not just that, but "people with self-reported liberal views tended to have a larger anterior cingulate cortex -- a brain area involved in processing conflicting information."

In the meantime, Osama bin Laden is still DEAD! And it was Barack Obama who orchestrated it.
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 05:31 PM   #44
Nirvana
Back in 10
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,684
Quote:
Being rather right of center myself allows and causes me to be whole -- unbroken. I am not here to lead you astray, Jill. I am here to do the very opposite. Indeed, such is my character that I could no other, all right?

Sooooooo when you made that post wishing to commit adultery with Anne Coulter [shudder] that was a shining example of your character? Alrighty then!!
__________________
Speaking simply... do not confuse this with having a simple mind.
Nirvana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2011, 05:39 PM   #45
Jill
Colonist Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Redondo Beach, CA (transplant from St. Louis, MO)
Posts: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana View Post

Sooooooo when you made that post wishing to commit adultery with Anne Coulter [shudder]. . .
Oh that's just nasty. [shudder] is right.
Jill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
i love tw, i love ug, merc luvs jill, merry xmas from barry o, rip ug, teh president barry, u want me, who be barrio?


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.