Obama's Afghanistan Speech, West Point

Urbane Guerrilla · 12-01-2009, 07:36 PM

So far, the policy outlines look very much like what the Republican plan was.

Where there is a flaw is in the unfortunate fact that Afghanistan does not have a popular conciousness as a nation state -- and the nation states of the rest of the world just don't get that. I expect us to have trouble there. Afghanistan is less a nation than it is a reservation for assorted hill tribes. Neighborhood security is not proffered by a national institution, but only among familial and clan ties -- it's your valley against all the rest of the world, especially the immediate neighborhood, and it ain't nice. Consequently Afghanistan is a very low-security, fractious place, and we must be working on that close-in level, not on the level of a Kabul government that too many tribesmen give less than a damn about and trust very little.

"Can't afford to simply ignore the price of these wars." Et seq. Sounds like maybe the light is dawning that increased tax burden everywhere may be antirecovery and antiprosperity in light of heavy military expenditure. Looks like some Pentagon's New Map/Plan Of Action/Great Powers ideas are slipping in too. Good.

Repeats nuclear control and disarmament. Not much new, no surprises.

"Make it clear to every man, woman, and child around the globe that America will speak out against tyranny..." Tyrants do not respond positively to being talked at, Obama. Try hanging; much more efficaceous.

"Unlike powers of old, we have not sought world domination..." True enough. This is evidenced in the lack of anybody else trying to build a Leviathan of a military that can compete with ours, nor a navy to challenge the US Navy. We are notable for leaving folks alone, and an understanding of this circles the globe.

"...government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall be a reality on this earth." Pretty, but wait for real actions in this direction.

"We will go forward with the confidence that Right makes Might."

Sounding not a little like George W. Bush.

SamIam · 12-01-2009, 10:39 PM

It would be nice if you provided a cite. Or do you just figure since everybody's fed up with you, that you're just posting to yourself?

Urbane Guerrilla · 12-01-2009, 11:06 PM

I was listening to the speech live while I typed, and I don't guarantee the quotes are precise. Look at the post time and how it coincides with the time his thirty-minute speech wrapped up, consider I was listening and jotting through a couple thirds of the speech.

The people who really don't think -- they are fed up with me. I embarrass them.
The people of genuinely bad character and emotionally disturbed -- they are REALLY fed up with me.
The guys who thought they could outthink me and outdebate me -- they've had to retire from the field, some of them more than once. I'm getting a pretty fair idea of the worth of what I hold dear, and how easy it is to show its advantage over what some have brought up in challenge.

If you do not really fall into any of these categories, you are not all the way fed up with me.

Many of what may for convenience be called "my opposition" try to go adhominem and make me the issue. This means that their cherished ideas can't compete -- and they know it. But I am not the issue, save in the minds of the terminally shallow -- the ones I embarrass.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-02-2009, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Sounding not a little like George W. Bush.

SamIam · 12-02-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I was listening to the speech live while I typed, and I don't guarantee the quotes are precise.

Okay, that explains it.

DanaC · 12-02-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

We are notable for leaving folks alone, and an understanding of this circles the globe.

Yep. That's exactly the notion of America that circles the globe just now.

regular.joe · 12-02-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Yep. That's exactly the notion of America that circles the globe just now.

Really, does that mean I can stop telling people I'm Canadian?

DanaC · 12-02-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regular.joe

Really, does that mean I can stop telling people I'm Canadian?

I'd probably hold off on that...for a little while :P

xoxoxoBruce · 12-02-2009, 11:05 AM

Keep practicing your "Eh", Joe.

classicman · 12-02-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Sounding not a little like George W. Bush.

Thank God for small favors ...

Radar · 12-02-2009, 03:02 PM

Not a bit like George W. Bush would have been a favor.

Urbane Guerrilla · 12-08-2009, 08:45 PM

A favor to the fascists, perhaps. Radar really doesn't want us fighting against totalitarian evil, and so will find any excuse to counsel aiding and abetting it.

Because in due course, the libertarians and the real democrats would come for him -- with intent. His totalitarian-left true colors become more and more evident.

ZenGum · 12-09-2009, 04:28 AM

Wha???

Did you just say Radar was totalitarian-left? The guy doesn't even support public education, let alone public health, gun control, or income tax.

Time to recalibrate your political compass.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-09-2009, 10:44 AM

That is the compass, in UG's bizarro world.

Radar · 12-09-2009, 11:08 AM

Bruce has that right, Zen. He thinks because I want to follow the core value of libertarianism (the non-aggression principle) by only using our military to defend our own country and not to use it to be involved in the disputes of other nations or to win freedom for any nation other than our own, I must not be a libertarian.

In his bizarro world, non-aggression means going out and killing anyone who doesn't embrace western democracy or whatever it is that HE considers freedom to be...other than determining their own destiny.

He calls me a leftist, because I proudly and happily voted for President Obama and I'm happy I did. While President Obama is not a libertarian, he's certainly more libertarian than war mongering...Keating 5...John McCain, his insane and brainless running mate, Hillary Clinton, or even Bob Barr who is a clone of McCain (though not quite as corrupt)

President Obama was the best choice and he's done a wonderful job so far considering that the Bush administration sent our country into a tail spin and he had to pull us out of it. The Bush recession is already slowing down do to the drastic action President Obama was forced to take to save GM (and all the remaining jobs they have), the banking industry (and their jobs, plus the jobs at millions of small businesses who were saved because they didn't have to close down when the banks did).

In UG's bizarro world, a libertarian only stands up for fiscal freedom and social freedoms are irrelevant. He's like so many of the non-libertarians in the party. Most are pissed off Republicans who got mad that Bush spent more than a Democrat's wet dream. A libertarian is more than a Republican who smokes pot, but he'll never know it because he thinks that he is a libertarian. Hell, he even referred to Arnold Schwarzenegger as a libertarian.

12-01-2009, 07:36 PM	#1
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Obama's Afghanistan Speech, West Point So far, the policy outlines look very much like what the Republican plan was. Where there is a flaw is in the unfortunate fact that Afghanistan does not have a popular conciousness as a nation state -- and the nation states of the rest of the world just don't get that. I expect us to have trouble there. Afghanistan is less a nation than it is a reservation for assorted hill tribes. Neighborhood security is not proffered by a national institution, but only among familial and clan ties -- it's your valley against all the rest of the world, especially the immediate neighborhood, and it ain't nice. Consequently Afghanistan is a very low-security, fractious place, and we must be working on that close-in level, not on the level of a Kabul government that too many tribesmen give less than a damn about and trust very little. "Can't afford to simply ignore the price of these wars." Et seq. Sounds like maybe the light is dawning that increased tax burden everywhere may be antirecovery and antiprosperity in light of heavy military expenditure. Looks like some Pentagon's New Map/Plan Of Action/Great Powers ideas are slipping in too. Good. Repeats nuclear control and disarmament. Not much new, no surprises. "Make it clear to every man, woman, and child around the globe that America will speak out against tyranny..." Tyrants do not respond positively to being talked at, Obama. Try hanging; much more efficaceous. "Unlike powers of old, we have not sought world domination..." True enough. This is evidenced in the lack of anybody else trying to build a Leviathan of a military that can compete with ours, nor a navy to challenge the US Navy. We are notable for leaving folks alone, and an understanding of this circles the globe. "...government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall be a reality on this earth." Pretty, but wait for real actions in this direction. "We will go forward with the confidence that Right makes Might." Sounding not a little like George W. Bush. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

12-01-2009, 11:06 PM	#3
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	I was listening to the speech live while I typed, and I don't guarantee the quotes are precise. Look at the post time and how it coincides with the time his thirty-minute speech wrapped up, consider I was listening and jotting through a couple thirds of the speech. The people who really don't think -- they are fed up with me. I embarrass them. The people of genuinely bad character and emotionally disturbed -- they are REALLY fed up with me. The guys who thought they could outthink me and outdebate me -- they've had to retire from the field, some of them more than once. I'm getting a pretty fair idea of the worth of what I hold dear, and how easy it is to show its advantage over what some have brought up in challenge. If you do not really fall into any of these categories, you are not all the way fed up with me. Many of what may for convenience be called "my opposition" try to go adhominem and make me the issue. This means that their cherished ideas can't compete -- and they know it. But I am not the issue, save in the minds of the terminally shallow -- the ones I embarrass. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course. Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 12-01-2009 at 11:16 PM.

12-02-2009, 11:05 AM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Keep practicing your "Eh", Joe. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-02-2009, 03:02 PM	#11
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Not a bit like George W. Bush would have been a favor. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

12-08-2009, 08:45 PM	#12
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	A favor to the fascists, perhaps. Radar really doesn't want us fighting against totalitarian evil, and so will find any excuse to counsel aiding and abetting it. Because in due course, the libertarians and the real democrats would come for him -- with intent. His totalitarian-left true colors become more and more evident. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

12-01-2009, 10:39 PM	#2
SamIam Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Not here Posts: 2,655	It would be nice if you provided a cite. Or do you just figure since everybody's fed up with you, that you're just posting to yourself?

12-09-2009, 04:28 AM	#13
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Wha??? Did you just say Radar was totalitarian-left? The guy doesn't even support public education, let alone public health, gun control, or income tax. Time to recalibrate your political compass. __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

12-09-2009, 10:44 AM	#14
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	That is the compass, in UG's bizarro world. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-09-2009, 11:08 AM	#15
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Bruce has that right, Zen. He thinks because I want to follow the core value of libertarianism (the non-aggression principle) by only using our military to defend our own country and not to use it to be involved in the disputes of other nations or to win freedom for any nation other than our own, I must not be a libertarian. In his bizarro world, non-aggression means going out and killing anyone who doesn't embrace western democracy or whatever it is that HE considers freedom to be...other than determining their own destiny. He calls me a leftist, because I proudly and happily voted for President Obama and I'm happy I did. While President Obama is not a libertarian, he's certainly more libertarian than war mongering...Keating 5...John McCain, his insane and brainless running mate, Hillary Clinton, or even Bob Barr who is a clone of McCain (though not quite as corrupt) President Obama was the best choice and he's done a wonderful job so far considering that the Bush administration sent our country into a tail spin and he had to pull us out of it. The Bush recession is already slowing down do to the drastic action President Obama was forced to take to save GM (and all the remaining jobs they have), the banking industry (and their jobs, plus the jobs at millions of small businesses who were saved because they didn't have to close down when the banks did). In UG's bizarro world, a libertarian only stands up for fiscal freedom and social freedoms are irrelevant. He's like so many of the non-libertarians in the party. Most are pissed off Republicans who got mad that Bush spent more than a Democrat's wet dream. A libertarian is more than a Republican who smokes pot, but he'll never know it because he thinks that he is a libertarian. Hell, he even referred to Arnold Schwarzenegger as a libertarian. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

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