The Power of Now - Page 9

lumberjim · 06-30-2019, 08:14 AM

lumberjim · 07-02-2019, 01:02 PM

xoxoxoBruce · 07-02-2019, 01:59 PM

Be careful.

lumberjim · 07-02-2019, 03:19 PM

You still stuck on that?

xoxoxoBruce · 07-02-2019, 03:34 PM

I worry about changing what one perceives to be reality when it doesn't jibe with what everyone else perceives it to be. Unintended consequences.

lumberjim · 07-02-2019, 04:39 PM

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not seeing reality any differently. I'm still as cynical as ever.

The difference is in the reaction. Things don't really go wrong. Things go. We make it wrong based on our perspective. Or right, if we approve of the outcome. Stripping away emotional response to things out of your control gives improved clarity of thought, not denial.

Understanding that you actually can't lose parts of yourself brings calm. If you inject your identity into objects... My Harley, your Ssr. My guitar I made.... Not really part of me. More part of my ego. I'm still me if I had to sell them.

Capice?

Losing my daughter stretches the boundaries of that, because I will actually not have her children to spoil, and my family or genetic line is lessened. But I'm still whole. I didn't lose anything I was born with.

sexobon · 07-02-2019, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

… But I'm still whole. I didn't lose anything I was born with.

[Bold mine]

You can take solace in that your daughter probably recognized this is how you would feel and it made her difficult decision easier.

lumberjim · 07-02-2019, 09:40 PM

For someone so well adjusted, you're pretty fucking callous on this topic. Almost seems like you're doing it on purpose.

sexobon · 07-02-2019, 09:59 PM

Your daughter saw you go through this when your marriage died. She knew the deal, what she could expect. I do. Most everyone else does. I'm glad you found your distraction by immersing yourself in the power of now. It's an interesting read/case study. Viewing it any other way won't change anything and would undermine my power of now.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-03-2019, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not seeing reality any differently. I'm still as cynical as ever.

The difference is in the reaction. Things don't really go wrong. Things go. We make it wrong based on our perspective. Or right, if we approve of the outcome. Stripping away emotional response to things out of your control gives improved clarity of thought, not denial.

Understanding that you actually can't lose parts of yourself brings calm. If you inject your identity into objects... My Harley, your Ssr. My guitar I made.... Not really part of me. More part of my ego. I'm still me if I had to sell them.

Capice?

Yeah, I see what you're driving at. I've know people who lost a spouse then went into a spiral because they weren't a complete whole. Also teen/early 20's boys who lost their car and just lost interest in anyone or anything.
I've never gotten so attached to an item that I felt without it I wasn't complete. That may be because I have a habit of breaking shit.

I do try to figure out how it will change my plans so I can act accordingly, being annoyed I was forced to do that. I have said damn, I wish I still had that, but it's usually at the beginning or end of a story.

Having emotions is human, and displaying them is part of our complex communication between humans, also between people and pets. People look askew at anyone who doesn't display at least some of the emotion they expect in a given situation.

I wish she had given a reason in the note, but it is what it is. You'll be OK.

lumberjim · 07-03-2019, 07:59 AM

I AM ok.

If she had left a well thought out, winning argument for her right to take her own life, complete with all the reasons and they all made sense, how would that change anything? It would just give us specific points to argue with and resist.

The note said, "I'm so so sorry. I love you so much"

Enough to let us know that she did it on purpose.

Spencer was there. She never asked to be saved, or displayed panic like you would if you had changed your mind about it.

I'm not suppressing my emotions. Emotions arise from the physical reaction to thought. I've accepted the reality, so I'm not having regretful thoughts or entertaining fantasies about how I could have prevented it. Nor am I projecting forward into thoughts about what I'll miss in the future without her. Mostly. I still get sad when it comes up. I still occasionally shed a tear when I do dally into the past or future, but always use that as an alert to my thoughts and bring myself back to the moment.

This thread is about how and why to do that. You're resisting it for your own reasons. You don't have to share, but I think you might want to investigate it within yourself.

You might benefit from this mumbo jumbo, given your health issues and, I would imagine, sense of semi-imminent mortality. My pain from the past, yours from the future. Same balm.

To die before you die is to let your ego go while you're still aware. To allow your ID to come forward and realize that you're just on loan. You will return to the earth from which you came. You can't take a single atom with you when you pass.

lumberjim · 07-03-2019, 10:54 AM

xoxoxoBruce · 07-04-2019, 03:50 AM

If it works for you that's great, go with it. However you're preaching this as the holy grail, salvation for all, and I don't believe that. I think there are people who will have reality come back to bite them in the ass when they repeat mistakes that they could have avoided.

lumberjim · 07-04-2019, 08:02 AM

I've been trying not to preach. Trying to offer counterpoint. This works for me. Maybe a few others that aren't speaking here. All it really amounts to is increased self awareness. That seems to piss you off. Why?

sexobon · 07-04-2019, 08:38 AM

Well (hole in the ground, about 50 ft. deep, you get water out of it), when you go on and on about it you make it sound like it's THE solution rather than an adjunct to the natural grieving process. It makes it seem that you're trying to reduce lives to the status of property the loss of which is easier to deal with. There's nothing new under the sun with the power of now. It's just a distraction. It's just trying to keep your mind off your loses until time heals all wounds as people have done forever. Thinking that you've got a panacea is purely egotistical. The kind of ego that can't be bruised by a balanced concern over it's role in matters past, present, and future. It eventually makes one expendable in other people's lives leading to failed relationships. Other than that it's mox nix. Good luck with that.

06-30-2019, 08:14 AM	#121
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	__________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

07-02-2019, 01:02 PM	#122
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	__________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

07-02-2019, 01:59 PM	#123
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Be careful. Attached Images __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-02-2019, 03:19 PM	#124
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	You still stuck on that? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

07-02-2019, 03:34 PM	#125
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I worry about changing what one perceives to be reality when it doesn't jibe with what everyone else perceives it to be. Unintended consequences. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-02-2019, 04:39 PM	#126
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not seeing reality any differently. I'm still as cynical as ever. The difference is in the reaction. Things don't really go wrong. Things go. We make it wrong based on our perspective. Or right, if we approve of the outcome. Stripping away emotional response to things out of your control gives improved clarity of thought, not denial. Understanding that you actually can't lose parts of yourself brings calm. If you inject your identity into objects... My Harley, your Ssr. My guitar I made.... Not really part of me. More part of my ego. I'm still me if I had to sell them. Capice? Losing my daughter stretches the boundaries of that, because I will actually not have her children to spoil, and my family or genetic line is lessened. But I'm still whole. I didn't lose anything I was born with. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

07-02-2019, 09:40 PM	#128
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	For someone so well adjusted, you're pretty fucking callous on this topic. Almost seems like you're doing it on purpose. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

07-02-2019, 09:59 PM	#129
sexobon I love it when a plan comes together. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,793	Your daughter saw you go through this when your marriage died. She knew the deal, what she could expect. I do. Most everyone else does. I'm glad you found your distraction by immersing yourself in the power of now. It's an interesting read/case study. Viewing it any other way won't change anything and would undermine my power of now.

07-03-2019, 07:59 AM	#131
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	I AM ok. If she had left a well thought out, winning argument for her right to take her own life, complete with all the reasons and they all made sense, how would that change anything? It would just give us specific points to argue with and resist. The note said, "I'm so so sorry. I love you so much" Enough to let us know that she did it on purpose. Spencer was there. She never asked to be saved, or displayed panic like you would if you had changed your mind about it. I'm not suppressing my emotions. Emotions arise from the physical reaction to thought. I've accepted the reality, so I'm not having regretful thoughts or entertaining fantasies about how I could have prevented it. Nor am I projecting forward into thoughts about what I'll miss in the future without her. Mostly. I still get sad when it comes up. I still occasionally shed a tear when I do dally into the past or future, but always use that as an alert to my thoughts and bring myself back to the moment. This thread is about how and why to do that. You're resisting it for your own reasons. You don't have to share, but I think you might want to investigate it within yourself. You might benefit from this mumbo jumbo, given your health issues and, I would imagine, sense of semi-imminent mortality. My pain from the past, yours from the future. Same balm. To die before you die is to let your ego go while you're still aware. To allow your ID to come forward and realize that you're just on loan. You will return to the earth from which you came. You can't take a single atom with you when you pass. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

07-03-2019, 10:54 AM	#132
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	__________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

07-04-2019, 03:50 AM	#133
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	If it works for you that's great, go with it. However you're preaching this as the holy grail, salvation for all, and I don't believe that. I think there are people who will have reality come back to bite them in the ass when they repeat mistakes that they could have avoided. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-04-2019, 08:02 AM	#134
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	I've been trying not to preach. Trying to offer counterpoint. This works for me. Maybe a few others that aren't speaking here. All it really amounts to is increased self awareness. That seems to piss you off. Why? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

07-04-2019, 08:38 AM	#135
sexobon I love it when a plan comes together. Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 9,793	Well (hole in the ground, about 50 ft. deep, you get water out of it), when you go on and on about it you make it sound like it's THE solution rather than an adjunct to the natural grieving process. It makes it seem that you're trying to reduce lives to the status of property the loss of which is easier to deal with. There's nothing new under the sun with the power of now. It's just a distraction. It's just trying to keep your mind off your loses until time heals all wounds as people have done forever. Thinking that you've got a panacea is purely egotistical. The kind of ego that can't be bruised by a balanced concern over it's role in matters past, present, and future. It eventually makes one expendable in other people's lives leading to failed relationships. Other than that it's mox nix. Good luck with that.

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