Sick of "Hate Crime" Being Used

03-12-2007, 07:44 PM

All crime is a hate crime.
Racism does not make one crime worse than another.
It makes the murder of someone who was not called a name less of a crime?
How stupid is this!?
The reason does not matter, that a crime was committed; assault, battery, theft, it does not matter as long as it is punished the same regardless of what was said during the crime.
It should not be a crime to be a racist, only to act upon it.
This is a free country and needs to remain so.
We need to use a little reason and get rid of this ignorance... the ignorance of hate crime law.

The facts of the crime should be the only determinant of punishment.
Saying that punching someone is a felony because you were wearing a hood tells family B who's father was mugged and was not called a name that the government cares less about him and his family than family A because of their minority status... THAT is a crime.

wolf · 03-12-2007, 10:11 PM

I agree with you on this one rzen ... "hate crime" is a term without meaning.

Has any non-white person been charged with a hate crime, either of a white person or of someone of another racial group than their own?

I'm thinking that this is a "no," despite there having been several cases in which it was clearly indicated.

cowhead · 03-13-2007, 02:47 AM

yuppers..by which I mean, none classified that way as far as I know. then again, we are the 'white devil' and the cause of all wrongs on the planet. .don't you remember? geez.

no no.. really the whole 'hate crime legislation' thing is as I see it a way to make people 'feel more secure' and that their government is 'doing something' about making this a better world to live in rather than just as a talking point. it's bullshit, just like the banning of the N word.. removing the word or outlawing it doesn't remove the sentiment behind it, if anything like a rebellious teenager it will only end up giving the word and the ideals behind it more power. and aside from that.. if one more person tells me I don't know what it's like to live in the ghetto (and I'll go on a tirade about this at some point.. in this neck of the woods and the general socio-economic 'bracket' most of these people live in... fuck that! they've never gone to bed hungry.. ) anywhoo! I'll have to regail them with the tales of why my Polish ancestors fled poland and the real ghettos. don't see anyone walling you in.. don't see anyone shooting you if you try to leave.. anyway.. kind of a sore point. and aside from that I have lived in some shitty shitty neighborhoods that make the bulk of these peoples 'ghettos' look like mansions.

Beestie · 03-13-2007, 03:38 AM

The very idea of hate crime, in my ignorant opinion, is a violation of the constitutional guarantee of equal protection under the law.

When you establish a protected class by making a crime against a member of that class a more severe crime than the exact same act perpetrated against a person not a member of that class then you have granted that class greater protection under the law.

This will end up in the Supreme Court someday and it will not pass constitutional muster.

At this rate, midget tossing will soon become a hate crime and that is something we simply cannot allow.

03-13-2007, 03:46 AM

Gee, I wonder if when they catch that black mugger who is all over CNN now, who targets only lil' ol' white women, if he will get charged with hate crimes....
I bet I know the answer!
Hate crime legislation is politics and not about true protection against racism.
Justice should NEVER be about politics, just the law.
Assault is assault is assault, end of story.

Ibby · 03-13-2007, 08:15 AM

What makes me mad is that it gets bandied around so often. Just because the target HAPPENED to be of one race or another doesnt AUTOMATICALLY mean it was racially motivated.

Happy Monkey · 03-13-2007, 09:49 AM

"Hate Crime" is to "Assault" (or whatever) as "Terrorism" is to "Bombing" (or whatever).

Griff · 03-13-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

"Hate Crime" is to "Assault" (or whatever) as "Terrorism" is to "Bombing" (or whatever).

Just because the left and the right agree on the desirability of prosecuting thought crime or motive doesn't make it right.

elSicomoro · 03-13-2007, 02:04 PM

To answer Wolf's question, yes.

This reminds me of that South Park episode where Token's dad educates the kids on "Hate Crimes: A Savage Hypocrisy."

At the same time, if I target someone as a crime victim just because of their race/ethnicity, why shouldn't I be punished more harshly? To me, it's like a person assaulting a child...you should be punished more severely if you do some stupid shit like that.

Trilby · 03-13-2007, 02:36 PM

Not all crime is hate crime. If I steal a loaf of bread from KwikiMart because my child is starving--is that a hate crime?

Also--If BillyBob is kewl with his bro's spittin' terbaccy in the lane but kills Abdul for spittin' terbaccy in the lane--just think. If his name wasn't Adbul--would BillyBob have iced him?

Flint · 03-13-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

... Also--If BillyBob is kewl with his bro's spittin' terbaccy in the lane but kills Abdul for spittin' terbaccy in the lane--just think. If his name wasn't Adbul--would BillyBob have iced him?

Another hypothetical: Billy Bob is very jealous and posessive of his wife. He sees another man, of his same racial identity, talking to her outside the grocery store, and becomes enraged! He beats the dude to death. Is that "better" or "worse" than your example? What if Billy Bob shoots somebody for looking at him wrong? Is it a more acceptable murder if he shoots another white guy for no reason?

Trilby · 03-13-2007, 02:58 PM

It's a matter of degree, flint.

Flint · 03-13-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

It's a matter of degree, flint.

If the "degrees" are a unit of measure, what exactly do they measure?

Trilby · 03-13-2007, 03:01 PM

Plus--you aren't being serious.

not ALL crime is a hate crime.

It's a crime to loiter and live in Dumpsters--i've admitted more than a few who were dislodged from dumpsters. Was their Dumpster Living a Crime? In the eyes of the law-yes. In my eyes-no.

Trilby · 03-13-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

If the "degrees" are a unit of measure, what exactly do they measure?

Read some more and let me know

03-12-2007, 07:44 PM	#1
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Sick of "Hate Crime" Being Used All crime is a hate crime. Racism does not make one crime worse than another. It makes the murder of someone who was not called a name less of a crime? How stupid is this!? The reason does not matter, that a crime was committed; assault, battery, theft, it does not matter as long as it is punished the same regardless of what was said during the crime. It should not be a crime to be a racist, only to act upon it. This is a free country and needs to remain so. We need to use a little reason and get rid of this ignorance... the ignorance of hate crime law. The facts of the crime should be the only determinant of punishment. Saying that punching someone is a felony because you were wearing a hood tells family B who's father was mugged and was not called a name that the government cares less about him and his family than family A because of their minority status... THAT is a crime. Last edited by rkzenrage; 03-12-2007 at 08:20 PM.

03-12-2007, 10:11 PM	#2
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I agree with you on this one rzen ... "hate crime" is a term without meaning. Has any non-white person been charged with a hate crime, either of a white person or of someone of another racial group than their own? I'm thinking that this is a "no," despite there having been several cases in which it was clearly indicated. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-13-2007, 02:47 AM	#3
cowhead halve your cake and eat it too. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Georgia.. by way of Lawrence Kansas Posts: 1,359	yuppers..by which I mean, none classified that way as far as I know. then again, we are the 'white devil' and the cause of all wrongs on the planet. .don't you remember? geez. no no.. really the whole 'hate crime legislation' thing is as I see it a way to make people 'feel more secure' and that their government is 'doing something' about making this a better world to live in rather than just as a talking point. it's bullshit, just like the banning of the N word.. removing the word or outlawing it doesn't remove the sentiment behind it, if anything like a rebellious teenager it will only end up giving the word and the ideals behind it more power. and aside from that.. if one more person tells me I don't know what it's like to live in the ghetto (and I'll go on a tirade about this at some point.. in this neck of the woods and the general socio-economic 'bracket' most of these people live in... fuck that! they've never gone to bed hungry.. ) anywhoo! I'll have to regail them with the tales of why my Polish ancestors fled poland and the real ghettos. don't see anyone walling you in.. don't see anyone shooting you if you try to leave.. anyway.. kind of a sore point. and aside from that I have lived in some shitty shitty neighborhoods that make the bulk of these peoples 'ghettos' look like mansions. __________________ no my child.. this is not my desire..I'm digging for fire. Last edited by cowhead; 03-13-2007 at 03:02 AM.

03-13-2007, 03:38 AM	#4
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	The very idea of hate crime, in my ignorant opinion, is a violation of the constitutional guarantee of equal protection under the law. When you establish a protected class by making a crime against a member of that class a more severe crime than the exact same act perpetrated against a person not a member of that class then you have granted that class greater protection under the law. This will end up in the Supreme Court someday and it will not pass constitutional muster. At this rate, midget tossing will soon become a hate crime and that is something we simply cannot allow. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

03-13-2007, 08:15 AM	#6
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	What makes me mad is that it gets bandied around so often. Just because the target HAPPENED to be of one race or another doesnt AUTOMATICALLY mean it was racially motivated. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

03-13-2007, 03:46 AM	#5
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Gee, I wonder if when they catch that black mugger who is all over CNN now, who targets *only* lil' ol' white women, if he will get charged with hate crimes.... I bet I know the answer! Hate crime legislation is politics and not about true protection against racism. Justice should NEVER be about politics, just the law. Assault is assault is assault, end of story.

03-13-2007, 09:49 AM	#7
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	"Hate Crime" is to "Assault" (or whatever) as "Terrorism" is to "Bombing" (or whatever). __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-13-2007, 02:04 PM	#9
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	To answer Wolf's question, yes. This reminds me of that South Park episode where Token's dad educates the kids on "Hate Crimes: A Savage Hypocrisy." At the same time, if I target someone as a crime victim just because of their race/ethnicity, why shouldn't I be punished more harshly? To me, it's like a person assaulting a child...you should be punished more severely if you do some stupid shit like that.

03-13-2007, 02:36 PM	#10
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Not all crime is hate crime. If I steal a loaf of bread from KwikiMart because my child is starving--is that a hate crime? Also--If BillyBob is kewl with his bro's spittin' terbaccy in the lane but kills Abdul for spittin' terbaccy in the lane--just think. If his name wasn't Adbul--would BillyBob have iced him? __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

03-13-2007, 02:58 PM	#12
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	It's a matter of degree, flint. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

03-13-2007, 03:01 PM	#14
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	Plus--you aren't being serious. not ALL crime is a hate crime. It's a crime to loiter and live in Dumpsters--i've admitted more than a few who were dislodged from dumpsters. Was their Dumpster Living a Crime? In the eyes of the law-yes. In my eyes-no. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

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