1/4/2003: New world's highest structure?

Undertoad · 01-04-2003, 12:29 PM

They want to build this thing in the Aussie desert, and if they do, it will be twice as high as the highest buildings in the world. They want to make it 1000 meters.

It's a solar tower. The round area at the base is massive and operates as a greenhouse-type thing: all it does is heat the air under the canopy of plastic panes. The air there will become hot - if it's 35 degrees C outside, it'll be 70 degrees C under the canopy.

The hot air will then seek to float up the tower, because it's cool at the top. The wind created by that air will be so strong that it will spin turbines at the base of the tower and generate 200MW of electricity. And because there's so much air movement, it'll generate that power 24 hours a day, unlike other solar methods.

Is it a good idea? I dunno. I have questions. What happens when all that desert heat is released a half mile into the sky? And isn't everything under the canopy basically dead? And isn't everything around the canopy basically endangered, since there will be a constant sucking wind moving towards the canopy?

This thing will generate roughly 1/50th of all the clean power Aus must generate under its Kyoto plans. Is that enough to justify all the upset it causes?

They want it to generate tourism, too. We shall see...

slang · 01-04-2003, 12:47 PM

Very interesting concept and photo.

I'd be interested in some more details. It doesnt seem it would be cost effective. Not including the cost of the actual tower , the canopy would appear to cover (?) 2.25 sq miles. Thats a lot of canopy thats high temp resistent, scatchproof clear, etc,etc.

On the other hand, I wouldnt be directly funding this experiment with tax money (or are we giving them some grant or something?). More power to them.

The engineers and designers know the design criteria and I obviously dont. It would seem more practical to use the canopy for some type of photoelectric cells though.

Undertoad · 01-04-2003, 01:05 PM

I was wrong on the amount of power it will generate towards the national Kyoto goals.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ower_col&ncid=

The story says " It will generate about 650 gigawatt hours (GWh) a year toward Australia's mandated renewable energy target, which requires electricity retailers to supply 9,500 GWh of renewable energy a year by 2010."

So not 1/50th of the power, more like 1/15th of the power they want to go towards Kyoto.

If one gets the land for free perhaps it is cost-effective.

Nothing But Net · 01-04-2003, 01:07 PM

Whatever.

But it would make an killer place to fly a sailplane or hang-glider.

slang · 01-04-2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
If one gets the land for free perhaps it is cost-effective.

The revised production numbers along with the cheap/free desert land make it sound more reasonable.

I wonder if the canopy could provide some type of plantlife an environment to thrive in without altering the optimum conditions for the tower. That would be impressive.

They could grow poppys or hemp to suppliment the power biz

(slang leaves the forum, stops talking out of his ass)

Griff · 01-04-2003, 02:05 PM

A sci-fi novel I read a while back (maybe Vernor Vinge?) had a similar device except it was much taller and was driven by temperature differential between the ground and the atmosphere so it didn't need that dead zone around it... as long as we're wearing asshats here.

Beletseri · 01-04-2003, 07:40 PM

Some one told me that Aus didn't sign the Kyoto agreement. Anyone know for sure?

kermitdp · 01-04-2003, 08:17 PM

Now wouldn't it be interesting if this aus solar wind tunnel could launch, say a shuttle?

jaguar · 01-05-2003, 03:50 AM

There are country towns that are *giving away* blocks of land to try and get people to live there, this far out the land is cheaper than a can of bean an acre.

01-06-2003, 05:33 AM

Man. When did Australia switch to the Can Of Beans (COB) currency?

Griff · 01-06-2003, 07:13 AM

Sounds like a legit means of exchange mmmmmm...beans. Mrs made Mexican lasagne Sat very active intestinal response.

elSicomoro · 01-06-2003, 08:06 PM

*rofl* TMPI

Bitman · 01-06-2003, 11:46 PM

I'd love to go 'chuting in that thing. And if the air speed is too high, just use it to launch 'chuters into the sky. Fwoomp! Angle it over a little, and it'd become a quick way to get into the city. You'd have to take the bus back, but that's okay, cuz you wouldn't wanna be launching your groceries cross country.

I'm curious if it has any real effect on the weather -- It'll concentrate the heat in one spot, but will it increase the amount of heat the planet absorbs?

dasviper · 01-07-2003, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bitman
I'd love to go 'chuting in that thing. And if the air speed is too high, just use it to launch 'chuters into the sky. Fwoomp! Angle it over a little, and it'd become a quick way to get into the city. You'd have to take the bus back, but that's okay, cuz you wouldn't wanna be launching your groceries cross country.

I'm curious if it has any real effect on the weather -- It'll concentrate the heat in one spot, but will it increase the amount of heat the planet absorbs?

Dude, don't you remember Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory? Think of the turbines!!!

Unknown_Poltroon · 01-07-2003, 12:30 PM

Youre taking the solar radaiton, converting it to heat, and then converting heat to kenetic energy, which you are than drawing away as electricity. It should cool the local area, and heat wherever the power is going to. I wonder if they can trap some of the moisture(if any) coming in on the wind and retain it. THis could be interesting. And if building 15-20 of them would provide the whole continents power, i say go for it.

COuld the same thing be done over the ocean, possibly to a smaller scale? THis could be a way to dissapate hot water before it can turn into hurricanes, as a thought.

01-04-2003, 12:29 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	1/4/2003: New world's highest structure? They want to build this thing in the Aussie desert, and if they do, it will be twice as high as the highest buildings in the world. They want to make it 1000 meters. It's a solar tower. The round area at the base is massive and operates as a greenhouse-type thing: all it does is heat the air under the canopy of plastic panes. The air there will become hot - if it's 35 degrees C outside, it'll be 70 degrees C under the canopy. The hot air will then seek to float up the tower, because it's cool at the top. The wind created by that air will be so strong that it will spin turbines at the base of the tower and generate 200MW of electricity. And because there's so much air movement, it'll generate that power 24 hours a day, unlike other solar methods. Is it a good idea? I dunno. I have questions. What happens when all that desert heat is released a half mile into the sky? And isn't everything under the canopy basically dead? And isn't everything around the canopy basically endangered, since there will be a constant sucking wind moving towards the canopy? This thing will generate roughly 1/50th of all the clean power Aus must generate under its Kyoto plans. Is that enough to justify all the upset it causes? They want it to generate tourism, too. We shall see...

01-04-2003, 12:47 PM	#2
slang St Petersburg, Florida Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,423	Very interesting concept and photo. I'd be interested in some more details. It doesnt seem it would be cost effective. Not including the cost of the actual tower , the canopy would appear to cover (?) 2.25 sq miles. Thats a lot of canopy thats high temp resistent, scatchproof clear, etc,etc. On the other hand, I wouldnt be directly funding this experiment with tax money (or are we giving them some grant or something?). More power to them. The engineers and designers know the design criteria and I obviously dont. It would seem more practical to use the canopy for some type of photoelectric cells though. __________________ FTFF Last edited by slang; 01-04-2003 at 01:17 PM.

01-04-2003, 02:05 PM	#6
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	A sci-fi novel I read a while back (maybe Vernor Vinge?) had a similar device except it was much taller and was driven by temperature differential between the ground and the atmosphere so it didn't need that dead zone around it... as long as we're wearing asshats here. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

01-04-2003, 07:40 PM	#7
Beletseri Yeah sez you Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 206	Kyoto Some one told me that Aus didn't sign the Kyoto agreement. Anyone know for sure?

01-04-2003, 08:17 PM	#8
kermitdp Kinda New Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1	hot air rises Now wouldn't it be interesting if this aus solar wind tunnel could launch, say a shuttle? __________________ kermitdp

01-04-2003, 01:05 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I was wrong on the amount of power it will generate towards the national Kyoto goals. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ower_col&ncid= The story says " It will generate about 650 gigawatt hours (GWh) a year toward Australia's mandated renewable energy target, which requires electricity retailers to supply 9,500 GWh of renewable energy a year by 2010." So not 1/50th of the power, more like 1/15th of the power they want to go towards Kyoto. If one gets the land for free perhaps it is cost-effective.

01-04-2003, 01:07 PM	#4
Nothing But Net Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Spring, Texas Posts: 1,481	Whatever. But it would make an killer place to fly a sailplane or hang-glider.

01-05-2003, 03:50 AM	#9
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	There are country towns that are giving away blocks of land to try and get people to live there, this far out the land is cheaper than a can of bean an acre. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

01-06-2003, 05:33 AM	#10
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Man. When did Australia switch to the Can Of Beans (COB) currency?

01-06-2003, 07:13 AM	#11
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	beans neither magical nor fruit Sounds like a legit means of exchange mmmmmm...beans. Mrs made Mexican lasagne Sat very active intestinal response. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

01-06-2003, 08:06 PM	#12
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	rofl TMPI

01-06-2003, 11:46 PM	#13
Bitman cellar smellar Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: californy, baby! Posts: 403	I'd love to go 'chuting in that thing. And if the air speed is too high, just use it to launch 'chuters into the sky. Fwoomp! Angle it over a little, and it'd become a quick way to get into the city. You'd have to take the bus back, but that's okay, cuz you wouldn't wanna be launching your groceries cross country. I'm curious if it has any real effect on the weather -- It'll concentrate the heat in one spot, but will it increase the amount of heat the planet absorbs?

01-07-2003, 12:30 PM	#15
Unknown_Poltroon Lead Subordinate Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 15	Shouldnt it have a net cooling effect? Youre taking the solar radaiton, converting it to heat, and then converting heat to kenetic energy, which you are than drawing away as electricity. It should cool the local area, and heat wherever the power is going to. I wonder if they can trap some of the moisture(if any) coming in on the wind and retain it. THis could be interesting. And if building 15-20 of them would provide the whole continents power, i say go for it. COuld the same thing be done over the ocean, possibly to a smaller scale? THis could be a way to dissapate hot water before it can turn into hurricanes, as a thought.

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