Fatwa Banning Snowmen

[xoxoxoBruce]

General Supervisor: Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid, at "Islam Question and Answer" website says...

Is it permissible to make snowmen?

Praise be to Allah.

If the snowman does not have clear facial features such as eyes, a nose and a mouth, and it is merely a three-dimensional figure with no features, like the scarecrows that farmers set up to scare away birds, and signs that are put on roads as a warning of roadworks or construction, then there is nothing wrong with any of that.

Similarly, there is nothing wrong with what children do for fun, because such figures are not usually treated with respect (unlike statues and idols) and it is well-known that children have a psychological need to play and have some fun and excitement, especially in places where snow only falls on rare occasions.

But if the snowman has clear facial features, then the majority of scholars are of the view that it is prohibited, because of the general meaning of the prohibition on making images, which has been explained in detail in question no. 146628. A similar ruling applies to figures that are made out of dough and other sweets, and so on.

More at the link.

While that the question even came up seems a pretty alien to me, it doesn't sound like the rantings of a rabid frothing lunatic. It sounds like a well thought out decision given the guidelines and precedents restricting their latitude in thinking. It shows how carefully people consider such matters when they don't want their head chopped off.

[gvidas]

Some backstory:

Islam originated during a time of extreme polytheism. There was a god for just about everything. People were very bullish on gods.

Mecca was a trading hub. You'd want to pray for good weather, and a healthy camel, and favorable negotiation, etc, before your trip. So the local shrine (the Kaa'ba, that weird black cube that Muslims circumnavigate annually) ended up playing host to all the different regional groups' gods.

Each of these was represented in the Kaa'ba by a figurine. The place got to be pretty crowded. Mohammad came along, smashed all the figures except for the largest one, and said "there is no god but God." The rest is history.

This lead to a longstanding prohibition on representational art. Islam is staunchly monotheistic (the first rule of fight club Pillar of Islam is "there is no god but God and Mohammad is his prophet"). One way to strongly define monotheism is by negating polytheism ("there is no god but God and Mohammad is his prophet"). Thus, things that resemble polytheism or the veneration of false idols (anything but God) is strongly discouraged.

Skip ahead a few hundred years, and the Muslim world has a strong tradition of calligraphy, poetry, architecture, and music, but not much else going on art-wise. In the same way that interpreting "you shall not boil a kid in its mothers milk" with an eye towards erring on the side of caution lead to a lot of people having two kitchens in a single-family dwelling but no cheeseburgers, the traditional response has been to ensure a clear path to heaven by not creating anything representational of living beings.

(this is, btw, why the Charlie Hebdo cartoons were especially offensive: confusing Mohammad for God, by idolizing him, is a sore point. Creating a representation of him (even a positive one) rubs some salt in this, nevermind being deliberately offensive about it.)

So, yeah, "muslims! arabia! snowmen! ha, ha!"

But the point is: figurative art is prohibited in conservative circles because it resembles idolatry.

[Griff]

So it's cool, unless the kid has artistic talent...

[xoxoxoBruce]

I seem to remember the Jews in the old testament stories had a similar problem with polytheism, golden calf and shit. Gave Charlton Heston, Victor Mature, Anthony Quinn, types fits, but made Cecil B. DeMille a fortune.

But I see this as a major flaw in Islam. Well not Islam, but how it's administered. Their reasoning on many questions hasn't been applicable since spear fighting and chariots. I mean really, what's the danger of some kid running off to join the circus and worship the bearded lady, because of a snowman?

[tw]

Clearly this is a response to all those Saddam, Asad, and Gaddafi statues that once were in great numbers in every town. A Fatwa has liberated the people from watchful eyes of evil leaders all over town. Evil leaders who stand there watching - who never sleep.

[Sundae]

When I worked inthe baby section of a supermarket in Leicester, and later in a boutique style baby outlet, I would be very careful regarding suggesting gifts for Muslim couples. Even those in Western dress may have grandparents to whom depictions of living animals were haram (forbidden) and would be upset if a babygro had cute rabbits all over it.

It was simply being culturally aware.

William Morris used to get around the issue of using animals in his designs inspired by Muslim art by having a thin line somewhere on the animal, so it would not technically be a living creature, ie a small gap between head and body on a bird.

Michael Palin, in his original travel doc Around the World in 80 Days noted the interesting abstract art in Saudi Arabia - certainly in public places - as a direct result of the religious prohibition. It's no weirder than not being able to carry keys on Shabbat, shurely?

[Clodfobble]

Definitely no weirder than "Sabbath mode" on my oven, that's for damn sure.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by gvidas

Some backstory:

Islam originated during a time of extreme polytheism. There was a god for just about everything. People were very bullish on gods.

Mecca was a trading hub. You'd want to pray for good weather, and a healthy camel, and favorable negotiation, etc, before your trip. So the local shrine (the Kaa'ba, that weird black cube that Muslims circumnavigate annually) ended up playing host to all the different regional groups' gods.

Each of these was represented in the Kaa'ba by a figurine. The place got to be pretty crowded. Mohammad came along, smashed all the figures except for the largest one, and said "there is no god but God." The rest is history.

This lead to a longstanding prohibition on representational art. Islam is staunchly monotheistic (the first rule of fight club Pillar of Islam is "there is no god but God and Mohammad is his prophet"). One way to strongly define monotheism is by negating polytheism ("there is no god but God and Mohammad is his prophet"). Thus, things that resemble polytheism or the veneration of false idols (anything but God) is strongly discouraged.

Skip ahead a few hundred years, and the Muslim world has a strong tradition of calligraphy, poetry, architecture, and music, but not much else going on art-wise. In the same way that interpreting "you shall not boil a kid in its mothers milk" with an eye towards erring on the side of caution lead to a lot of people having two kitchens in a single-family dwelling but no cheeseburgers, the traditional response has been to ensure a clear path to heaven by not creating anything representational of living beings.

(this is, btw, why the Charlie Hebdo cartoons were especially offensive: confusing Mohammad for God, by idolizing him, is a sore point. Creating a representation of him (even a positive one) rubs some salt in this, nevermind being deliberately offensive about it.)

So, yeah, "muslims! arabia! snowmen! ha, ha!"

But the point is: figurative art is prohibited in conservative circles because it resembles idolatry.

What a helpful post. Thank you.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by tw

Clearly this is a response to all those Saddam, Asad, and Gaddafi statues that once were in great numbers in every town. A Fatwa has liberated the people from watchful eyes of evil leaders all over town. Evil leaders who stand there watching - who never sleep.

Big Brother... Was Watching.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Definitely no weirder than "Sabbath mode" on my oven, that's for damn sure.

Observant Orthodox in Texas? Only in America!

[Clodfobble]

Our kids' GI doctor has a plaque on his office wall that reads, "Shalom, y'all."

[Gravdigr]

No anti-God comments?

No, no anti-God comments.

I must think on this.

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by Sundae

When I worked in the baby section of a supermarket in Leicester...

They sold babies? By the pound, by the dozen, wtf?

[Gravdigr]

Srsly:

This lead to a longstanding prohibition on representational art.

Ok, I knew about drawrings and such, but, how are photographs dealt with/thought of?

[Gravdigr]

Originally Posted by Gravdigr

No anti-God comments?

No, no anti-God comments.

I must think on this.

I prolly shoulda put a smilie of some sort with that, as I was really just throwing rocks and trying to be snide and smarmy. Hope I didn't piss anyone off irrevocably.