Bush suddenly an interesting character again

[lookout123]

my statement was a general one in response to UT's last line. There are a couple people around the cellar who wouldn't provide a cite to save their life.

No more cite probation...i was just making a point.

[Undertoad]

Re, all that said... from what I've read, a new AG generally issues a new policy on these things by memo. But it is a remarkable thing -- and when I say remarkable, I mean in a good sense -- that O issued the memo himself. It gives the policy much more weight. It's something that he will be judged upon by the responsiveness of the whole Federal government, and it means much more than a campaign promise.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Re, all that said... from what I've read, a new AG generally issues a new policy on these things by memo. But it is a remarkable thing -- and when I say remarkable, I mean in a good sense -- that O issued the memo himself. It gives the policy much more weight. It's something that he will be judged upon by the responsiveness of the whole Federal government, and it means much more than a campaign promise.

Perhaps its a matter of tone.

The Reno memo suggested that requests were only to be denied if there was “foreseeable harm” in releasing the documents.

The Ashcroft memo suggested that agecies could deny FOIA requests as long as there was a “sound legal basis” for doing so. Ashcroft issues a second memo after 9/11

From a GAO report on the impact of the Ashcroft memo:

Federal agencies are limiting public access because of a 2001 memo from Attorney General John Ashcroft, according to a congressional watchdog agency.

The General Accounting Office (GAO) released a report saying, a significant percentage of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) officers have reduced the amount of information available to the public because of Attorney General John Ashcroft’s infamous October 2001 memo. Ashcroft’s memo instructed agencies to exercise greater caution in disclosing information requested under FOIA.

The GAO investigated the impact of Ashcroft’s memo, in response to a request from Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT). GAO’s methodology included reviewing FOIA policy documents and surveying 183 FOIA officials at 23 federal agencies.

Almost a full third of the total number of FOIA officials surveyed (31 percent) reported that because of the memo there was a decreased likelihood that their agencies would make a discretionary release of information. Additionally, one-fourth of the FOIA officials surveyed reported that Ashcroft’s memo has changed the use of specific FOIA exemptions. For a single memo the impact indicated by this simple survey is considerable.

http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/1821/1/189/

***
Following the issuance of the Ashcroft memorandum, Justice changed its guidance for agencies on FOIA implementation to refer to and reflect the two primary policy changes in the memorandum. First, under the Ashcroft memorandum, agencies making decisions on discretionary disclosure are directed to carefully consider such fundamental values as national security, effective law enforcement, and personal privacy; the Reno memorandum had established an overall “presumption of disclosure” and promoted discretionary disclosures to achieve “maximum responsible disclosure.”

Second, according to the Ashcroft memorandum, Justice will defend an agency’s withholding information if the agency has a “sound legal basis” for such withholding under FOIA; under the Reno policy, Justice would defend an agency’s withholding information only when the agency reasonably foresaw that disclosure would harm an interest protected by an exemption.

GAO report (pdf)
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03981.pdf

The Obama memo restores and promotes a "presumption of disclosure" rather than seeking a "sound legal basis" not to disclose.

The more open the government...the more accountable!

[TheMercenary]

I see no evidence that the reduction under Reno or Ashcroft resulted in harm or cover-up of information that was not released. So far it seems like they did the right thing and tightened up a very loose process of FOIA releases. So where is the problem? Your cite says that the GAO found that "sound legal basis" for withholding information was the standard by which the various departments would be defended. Sounds prudent to me.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I see no evidence that the reduction under Reno or Ashcroft.....

I guess you dont see the difference between the Reno and Ashcroft memos and the respective policy approach they proscribe in responding to FOIA requests.

Or the fact the Obama memo restores a policy similar to Reno and vastly different from Ashbrook.

We simply disagree....I want a more open and accountable government. You want to be more prudent.

Thats cool! I accept that.

But when making a case that there has been NO CHANGE by Obama....I hope you will read all three memos again. The Obama memo represents change...perhaps change you dont like, but change, nonetheless.

I'm just glad my guy is in now.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

I'm just glad my guy is in now.

He's not your guy. He is The Man now. He is everyone's guy, just like Bush was, whether any of us want him or not. I am willing to give him the benifit of the doubt except when I see him doing the same things done by previous politicians. I am going to call him out on every thing I have heard other bitch about for the last 30 years.

[Aliantha]

Well you just never know Merc. Maybe he'll do a good job, and you don't want to end up with egg on your face because you criticized too soon do you?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Well you just never know Merc. Maybe he'll do a good job, and you don't want to end up with egg on your face because you criticized too soon do you?

Unlike popular belief about me, I want him to be the most successful president eva. EVA! But I know better. Keep your eye on the ball.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

.... I am going to call him out on every thing I have heard other bitch about for the last 30 years.

Sounds like a bitch fest!

It might be fun as long as one maintains some level of objectivity and recognizes that factual arguments differ from unsubstantiated opinions...both of which have their place at the party.

Aussies are invited to the bitch fest?

I havent partied with Ali in ages!

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Unlike popular belief about me, I want him to be the most successful president eva. EVA! But I know better. Keep your eye on the ball.

How can you know better? Do you have inside information? He's only just begun, so I don't see how you can possibly make any kind of rational judgement about his abilities just yet. Give him a few months and then start, but don't go making unfounded judgements just yet.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

....He's only just begun.....

Are you playing Karen Carpenter at this bitch fest?

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by Redux

Aussies are invited to the bitch fest?

I havent partied with Ali in ages!

Oh yeah...I come to all the good bitch fests around here. If I don't, I have to worry about my reputation as a bitch slipping.

I wont be doing too much partying for a little while though. I've got a little under two months and I'll be having a baby.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by Redux

Are you playing Karen Carpenter at this bitch fest?

I can't sing that well. lol