02-02-2005, 03:43 PM | #31 | |
Macavity
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Quote:
One project has kept a running estimate of press accounts of the number of Iraqi citizens killed by coalition forces: at present, the estimated range is 13000–15 000 (http://www.iraqbodycount.net). Aside from the likelihood that press accounts are incomplete, this source does not record deaths that are the indirect result of the armed conflict. Other sources place the death toll much higher.14 In a recent BBC article decrying the lack of a reliable civilian death count from the war in Iraq, Ken Roth of Human Rights Watch purports that it will not be possible “to come up with anything better than a good guess at the final civilian cost”. In the present setting of insecurity and limited availability of health information, we undertook a nationwide survey to estimate mortality during the 14·6 months before the invasion (Jan 1, 2002, to March 18, 2003) and to compare it with the period from March 19, 2003, to the date of the interview, between Sept 8 and 20, 2004. One hopes that your comprehension of statistics is better than your reading comprehension, especially if your profession requires the use of statistical methods. Frankly, I have no problem with the 95% cl. Maybe you wouldn't either if you actually read the paper.
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Macavity, Macavity, there's no on like Macavity, He's broken every human law, he breaks the law of gravity. - T.S. Eliot, Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats |
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02-03-2005, 04:13 PM | #32 |
Professor
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Nowhere in the study does it say that the mortality counts they measured was limited to civilians. In fact, they explicitly say it was not:
"Many of the Iraqis reportedly killed by US forces could have been combatants. 28 of 61 killings (46%) attributed to US forces involved men age 15–60 years, 28 (46%) were children younger than 15 years, four (7%) were women, and one was an elderly man. It is not clear if the greater number of male deaths was attributable to legitimate targeting of combatants who may have been disproportionately male, or if this was because men are more often in public and more likely to be exposed to danger. For example, seven of 12 (58%) vehicle accident related fatalities involved men between 15 and 60 years" |
02-03-2005, 06:22 PM | #33 | ||
Macavity
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No, once again, trying reading the words you yourself have quoted. "Could have been" is not the phrasing one would use to state "explicitly" that these were combatant deaths. In fact, the studied only counted the deaths of those who had resided at home for two months or longer prior to their death. Look at what your quoted segment goes on to say: 46% were children younger than 15 years. The researchers are actually making the point as politely as possible that the claim that these might be combatant deaths is a dubious one. Look at the very next paragraphs after that quote: Quote:
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Macavity, Macavity, there's no on like Macavity, He's broken every human law, he breaks the law of gravity. - T.S. Eliot, Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats Last edited by Schrodinger's Cat; 02-03-2005 at 06:25 PM. |
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02-03-2005, 07:28 PM | #34 |
Radical Centrist
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It wouldn't be possible to hide 100,000 dead bodies.
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02-03-2005, 08:37 PM | #35 | |
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. Last edited by xoxoxoBruce; 04-07-2007 at 05:57 PM. |
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02-03-2005, 09:08 PM | #36 |
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I just don't think its a good idea to accept a conclusion about a single event based solely on statistical evidence. The lack of direct emperical evidence in a case like this is beyond conspicuous. And the margin of error is unacceptably high. And the number is just too damn even. And the timing was funny. And And And
I am not interested in the likelihood of 100,000 fatalities but rather the actualhood of a real body count. Somebody needs to either cough up 100,000 corpses or admit that they pulled the number out of their rectum to provide Kerry some more swing votes.
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02-04-2005, 12:33 AM | #37 |
lobber of scimitars
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What's that line from The Manchurian Candidate? I have evidence of 57 documented communists in the state department ...
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02-04-2005, 07:14 AM | #38 | |
Read? I only know how to write.
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Do you still believe what the president's spin doctors tell you - or will you finally admit that looting did happen? How many people died even because the hospitals had no equipment and no antibiotics? It must be zero because even the looting did not happen. UT when are you going to admit that peer reviewed papers provide responsible facts and that the administration constantly lies? We even have these myths about Social Security. The administration spin is 15,000 dead. Nonsense. Same people lied so egregiously as to get us into a war of no merit. The study says 98,000 dead. There is a responsible figure with so much credibility as to appear in The Lancet. Who should we believe - reality or the 'feelings' of UT? Where does the administration put up any facts to dispute this? They cannot and and don't try. That alone is damning evidence. So where are the weapons of mass destruction? You still believe them to be honest? To say how many have really been killed? And I guess you also see a light at the end of the tunnel? Clearly the White House also must have an exit strategy - or did they invent that also? The best numbers we have say 98,000 dead - and that the administration is only lying ... again. |
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02-04-2005, 07:40 AM | #39 | |
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Statistics that meet peer review are more accurate than any body count from a war zone. How many died in Rwanda? Clearly they lie because no one counted the half million dead. Rwanda is clearly another scam just like the manned moon landings. Just another way to deny reality. Demand body counts. Then the almighty George Jr must be right. When the 'powers that be' don't like facts, then they demand the absurd. Its called spin. Your demand for bodies is a classic effort to undercount the dead. Why would you so dishonor such good human beings? Why do you so hate innocent Iraqis? We have an honest assessment of the dead with a 95% confidence level. Furthermore the assessment met the requirements of The Lancet - that is not trying to cover its political ass. Instead you would believe something that the George Jr administration says? Where is the credibility - and weapons of mass destruction that they invented? 98,000 dead is the honest number. Those who believe Rush Limbaugh types just know that must be wrong. They just know and then make absurd demands. We killed every N Vietnamese soldier three times. The body counts prove it. No wonder you want a body count. Its called denial. |
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02-04-2005, 08:32 AM | #40 | ||
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Intellectual flatulence and tin-foil-coated logic is no substitute for common sense. Unless, of course, you don't have any.
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02-04-2005, 08:56 AM | #41 |
Radical Centrist
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"Not everyone wants democracy." - tw, two weeks ago
We bow to this remarkable visionary who truly understands how things are. |
02-04-2005, 10:02 AM | #42 | |
changed his status to single
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as young men they saw the foolishness of such methods and refused to allow it under their command, first in Desert Storm, then Afghanistan, then Iraq.
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02-04-2005, 12:20 PM | #43 | |
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The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump. |
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02-04-2005, 05:56 PM | #44 |
still says videotape
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I am glad tw escaped his abductors.
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02-04-2005, 09:56 PM | #45 |
Macavity
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Yeah, Bruce? And? (This is a 5 year old American child)
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Macavity, Macavity, there's no on like Macavity, He's broken every human law, he breaks the law of gravity. - T.S. Eliot, Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats Last edited by Schrodinger's Cat; 02-04-2005 at 09:59 PM. |
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