Reporting non-compliant businesses - Page 3

Flint · 08-30-2007, 01:23 PM

Whether he wanted a hot-dog or not is not the issue, unless the owner of the business made a psychic prediction that "the guy in the wheelchair doesn't really want a hot-dog" when he decided not to buy a couple of bags of quikrete at Home Depot. Can we agree to rule out the supernatural?

xoxoxoBruce · 08-30-2007, 05:15 PM

I wonder if a couple of bags of quikrete from Home Depot would do it? If they decided they wanted to replace that step with a ramp, would they suddenly have to comply with all kinds of federal guidelines?

I know they are in violation of the law, and it's not right, but I wonder if this is just callous disregard, or trying to let sleeping dogs lie?

Undertoad · 08-30-2007, 05:19 PM

The "suddenly have to comply" moment probably happened when they remodeled.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-30-2007, 08:24 PM

Yes it did, but if they found out all the federal crap involved they might have let it slide hoping no one would notice. Of course the mayor would have the local inspector in his pocket.
Remember all the shit in that thread, where tw was talking about wheelchair ramps rules and how hard they are to find, no less comply?

lookout123 · 08-30-2007, 08:36 PM

I didn't say it was right. My point is just... well, my point is why does rob care? If it's because he really want to do business there, then fine. If it's just because it pisses him off that the place is non-compliant, then report it and move on with your life. pick your battles.

08-30-2007, 08:38 PM

The more I think back the more I remember this kind of thing happening. My wife sees it more than I do; people getting in front of me in lines, stepping in front of me at a parade and when I say “excuse me” looking at me and then turning back around without moving… all kinds of little and more overt things of this nature. It happens while shopping, restaurants, on sidewalks, everywhere.

Normally I don’t think about it, but I am very depressed today about it. I don’t know why, but I hate the feeling of not being wanted, being looked at as something less than fully human.
I don’t believe it is the whole “it is a subconscious fear of infection/fear of mortality” thing. I believe it is an outright prejudice of those who are different and steps taken to exclude them/us.

Another aspect of this is that those businesses have chosen to make it impossible to hire any disabled associates

The hot dog shop incident happened because my son wanted a hot dog.

Griff · 08-30-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I wonder if a couple of bags of quikrete from Home Depot would do it? If they decided they wanted to replace that step with a ramp, would they suddenly have to comply with all kinds of federal guidelines?

I know they are in violation of the law, and it's not right, but I wonder if this is just callous disregard, or trying to let sleeping dogs lie?

It really depends on the location. I think it cost us like $12K to get the ramp done for a hall here. It gets used as a voting station so it had to be done. The Feds have guidelines for access doors and rise/run of the ramp. It isn't a couple bags of quikcrete in many situations. If its done wrong and someone gets injured you lose your business as well.

Elspode · 08-30-2007, 09:16 PM

The local major news AM station had a piece this morning about the ADA as regards diabetics. Taking away the specificity of the piece, what stuck with me rang very true. In most civil rights cases, you have to show that discrimination exists. When it comes down to legal challenges to ADA regs, more often than not, the burden is on the disabled person to show that they are actually *disabled*. In other words, you have to prove that you have a problem before the law applies to you. This is a burden of proof that is not required of blacks or other so-called minorities. That left a pretty foul taste in my mouth.

RK, may I humbly suggest that you (with appropriate family and friend support, and video cameras running), throw yourself out of your chair and onto the space in front of the door, and attempt to crawl inside and order a hotdog?

yesman065 · 08-30-2007, 09:18 PM

Rob, I think we all agree with you in principle, but your course of action should be to notify the proper authorities and make sure they follow up - what else can anyone say or do. I f it really bothers you - picket the place or take out an ad in the local paper.

08-30-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elspode

The local major news AM station had a piece this morning about the ADA as regards diabetics. Taking away the specificity of the piece, what stuck with me rang very true. In most civil rights cases, you have to show that discrimination exists. When it comes down to legal challenges to ADA regs, more often than not, the burden is on the disabled person to show that they are actually *disabled*. In other words, you have to prove that you have a problem before the law applies to you. This is a burden of proof that is not required of blacks or other so-called minorities. That left a pretty foul taste in my mouth.

RK, may I humbly suggest that you (with appropriate family and friend support, and video cameras running), throw yourself out of your chair and onto the space in front of the door, and attempt to crawl inside and order a hotdog?

Sounds good, but would put me in the hospital for a while.
Honestly, this is not just about that one place anymore. I am going to report them on Monday. It is about the idea and how commonplace this and the attitude is.

Razzmatazz13 · 08-30-2007, 11:36 PM

The other day at work we had a huge shipment of trees...and nowhere to put them....solution? mark off a bunch of parking spaces in the parking lot to set them in...

I thought of this thread and cringed as two of our handicapped spots (the last two on that end of the store) were roped off...
Even worse...there was a car in one of the handicapped spots which turned out to be an employee's car...granted he's a little old man who has the handicapped tags and all...but couldn't he at least park one spot next to the handicapped one so that it's free for the customers to use during the day?

08-30-2007, 11:54 PM

We had a lady that worked at our company that had a disabled tag for her Harley and she jogged in the gym at work three days a week on the treadmill.
She would often take the last disabled space with it and run into the office if she was late.
It was so surreal....

jinx · 08-30-2007, 11:57 PM

Maybe disabled people should have to wear big sandwich boards explaining their ailments (in several languages) whenever they plan to park in a blue spot...

Aliantha · 08-30-2007, 11:59 PM

People used to park in our one handicapped space at work all the time as it it didn't have a big square of blue paint with a handicapped sign.

It used to piss me off to the max even though i'm not handicapped.

Then again, I'm the sort of person who sees someone obviously able bodied with no tags on their car, parking in the handicapped zone and says, "where's your cane?". In some cases I've been lucky they didn't actually have a cane handy, but I just think it's rude and very poor form.

08-31-2007, 12:00 AM

You are right, I am being very narrow minded about the jogging disability. I'm sure after her jog she has trouble walking to her hog.

08-30-2007, 01:23 PM	#31
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Whether he wanted a hot-dog or not is not the issue, unless the owner of the business made a psychic prediction that "the guy in the wheelchair doesn't really want a hot-dog" when he decided not to buy a couple of bags of quikrete at Home Depot. Can we agree to rule out the supernatural? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-30-2007, 05:15 PM	#32
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I wonder if a couple of bags of quikrete from Home Depot would do it? If they decided they wanted to replace that step with a ramp, would they suddenly have to comply with all kinds of federal guidelines? I know they are in violation of the law, and it's not right, but I wonder if this is just callous disregard, or trying to let sleeping dogs lie? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-30-2007, 08:24 PM	#34
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Yes it did, but if they found out all the federal crap involved they might have let it slide hoping no one would notice. Of course the mayor would have the local inspector in his pocket. Remember all the shit in that thread, where tw was talking about wheelchair ramps rules and how hard they are to find, no less comply? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-30-2007, 08:36 PM	#35
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	I didn't say it was right. My point is just... well, my point is why does rob care? If it's because he really want to do business there, then fine. If it's just because it pisses him off that the place is non-compliant, then report it and move on with your life. pick your battles. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

08-30-2007, 08:38 PM	#36
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	The more I think back the more I remember this kind of thing happening. My wife sees it more than I do; people getting in front of me in lines, stepping in front of me at a parade and when I say “excuse me” looking at me and then turning back around without moving… all kinds of little and more overt things of this nature. It happens while shopping, restaurants, on sidewalks, everywhere. Normally I don’t think about it, but I am very depressed today about it. I don’t know why, but I hate the feeling of not being wanted, being looked at as something less than fully human. I don’t believe it is the whole “it is a subconscious fear of infection/fear of mortality” thing. I believe it is an outright prejudice of those who are different and steps taken to exclude them/us. Another aspect of this is that those businesses have chosen to make it impossible to hire any disabled associates The hot dog shop incident happened because my son wanted a hot dog. Last edited by rkzenrage; 08-30-2007 at 08:50 PM.

08-30-2007, 05:19 PM	#33
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	The "suddenly have to comply" moment probably happened when they remodeled.

08-30-2007, 09:16 PM	#38
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	The local major news AM station had a piece this morning about the ADA as regards diabetics. Taking away the specificity of the piece, what stuck with me rang very true. In most civil rights cases, you have to show that discrimination exists. When it comes down to legal challenges to ADA regs, more often than not, the burden is on the disabled person to show that they are actually disabled. In other words, you have to prove that you have a problem before the law applies to you. This is a burden of proof that is not required of blacks or other so-called minorities. That left a pretty foul taste in my mouth. RK, may I humbly suggest that you (with appropriate family and friend support, and video cameras running), throw yourself out of your chair and onto the space in front of the door, and attempt to crawl inside and order a hotdog? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

08-30-2007, 09:18 PM	#39
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Rob, I think we all agree with you in principle, but your course of action should be to notify the proper authorities and make sure they follow up - what else can anyone say or do. I f it really bothers you - picket the place or take out an ad in the local paper.

08-30-2007, 11:36 PM	#41
Razzmatazz13 Vicariously, I live... Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,221	The other day at work we had a huge shipment of trees...and nowhere to put them....solution? mark off a bunch of parking spaces in the parking lot to set them in... I thought of this thread and cringed as two of our handicapped spots (the last two on that end of the store) were roped off... Even worse...there was a car in one of the handicapped spots which turned out to be an employee's car...granted he's a little old man who has the handicapped tags and all...but couldn't he at least park one spot next to the handicapped one so that it's free for the customers to use during the day? __________________ I have some people I need to have smoted. ~ SteveDallas

08-30-2007, 11:54 PM	#42
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	We had a lady that worked at our company that had a disabled tag for her Harley and she jogged in the gym at work three days a week on the treadmill. She would often take the last disabled space with it and run into the office if she was late. It was so surreal....

08-30-2007, 11:57 PM	#43
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	Maybe disabled people should have to wear big sandwich boards explaining their ailments (in several languages) whenever they plan to park in a blue spot... __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

08-30-2007, 11:59 PM	#44
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	People used to park in our one handicapped space at work all the time as it it didn't have a big square of blue paint with a handicapped sign. It used to piss me off to the max even though i'm not handicapped. Then again, I'm the sort of person who sees someone obviously able bodied with no tags on their car, parking in the handicapped zone and says, "where's your cane?". In some cases I've been lucky they didn't actually have a cane handy, but I just think it's rude and very poor form. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

08-31-2007, 12:00 AM	#45
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	You are right, I am being very narrow minded about the jogging disability. I'm sure after her jog she has trouble walking to her hog.

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