2/11/2003: Gullies on Mars

Undertoad · 02-11-2003, 11:13 AM

It may take a while to load, but the detail on this one is important. This is an Astronomy Pic of the Day pic showing some of the surface of Mars from orbit.

Why this is cool: it sure looks like those formations came from water, doesn't it? And on Earth, similar formations are generally caused by water. So they feel these images are further evidence of underground water on Mars. Not at all far underground, either; 30-60 centimeters.

Note that the above image is 1500 meters across.

Uryoces · 02-11-2003, 12:01 PM

The key is to find out when these gulllies were formed. If you look closely, you can see what appears to be a half-buried runway. I'd look at it and say, "Hey! That natural feature looks like a runway; how odd." A conspiracy theorist would start screeching and braining peccaries with a wildebeast femur...

Shivaaa · 02-11-2003, 01:36 PM

I see the runway. And I see Jesus with a mustasche in the lower right corner. This is solid evidence that Christians were baptised in the waters on Mars....

wolf · 02-11-2003, 02:02 PM

I was kinda entranced by the flaccid penis and scrotal sac at the top center of the pic ... MUCH more convincing than the "face on mars" pic that is in the tabloids all the time.

Elspode · 02-11-2003, 03:21 PM

Wolf, if no one has mentioned that you are amazingly astute and more than slightly warped, then it was a major oversight.

Did you end up in the mental health industry *because* of these factors or *despite* them?

Skunks · 02-11-2003, 03:27 PM

All of your discoveries pale in comparison to mine: there is a rake on Mars.

No longer will our young be conscripted into slave labor come Autumn! We will conquer and enslave Martians with pride and honor, like our forefathers before us!

Undertoad · 02-11-2003, 04:18 PM

That's no rake. It's a kitty litter scoop.

And the rivulets and gullies? From cat pee!

This is the terrible secret of space! Where is the pusher robot?

wolf · 02-11-2003, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elspode
Wolf, if no one has mentioned that you are amazingly astute and more than slightly warped, then it was a major oversight.

Did you end up in the mental health industry *because* of these factors or *despite* them?

Do you think it is an accident that I am closely involved with ALL of the doctors that do commitment evaluations in my county of residence

Tee hee ...

Actually, I'm in the mental health industry because I USED to be in the computer(ish) industry. I worked for an advertising sales company (For Hearst Electronics Publications ... Electronic Products and EEM) as their computer geek. One Friday morning I had a job, Friday night I didn't. The company went belly up.

I went to unemployment, did all the paperwork, started getting checks, yadah yadah ... came to the realization that the gubbermint checks weren't going to cover my bills and needed a job REALLY fast. I was talking to a friend of mine who was a nurse here at Club Head. She said they had a position open. I figured it would be something to hold me over until I got a "real" job.

I was hired the next day.

That was 10-1/2 years ago. I now have a Master's Degree in Clinical Psych (which follows a Bachelor's in Geography and Planning ... I actually have some other stuff to say about the Mars pic, but I'm holding off until I'm home and can really take a good look at it) and am considering finding an online doctoral program since I really don't have the time, inclincation, or money to do a traditional doctorate, partcularly since most of them don't recognize an existing master's and make you retake a lot of classes you've already had.

Turns out that I really LIKE psych patients. I find the whole field fascinating (but admittedly frustrating at times).

It's one of those jobs where you either fit in and do it, or you just can't hack it. I took to it like a duck to water.

Now, back to the topic at hand(ish) ...

Looking at images like this is not unlike the Rohrschach. It's actually kind of interesting reading what people are coming up with.

What does MY response mean?

It's been too long since my last visit with my boyfriend.

Torrere · 02-11-2003, 11:25 PM

There are some hikers out in the woods on the lower left. Above them seem to be two nude women. A big, downtrodden person is dragging their arm behind them on the right.

Slithy_Tove · 02-12-2003, 12:19 AM

Okay, seriously, folks.

The escarpment on the left, with the rivulents leading away from it looks like a lot of the features in the 'basin and range' area of Colorado, Nevada and Utah. When I drive from Vegas to the Grand Canyon area, a lot of the geography inbetween looks like this.

The rising up of that escarpment, and its erosion by liquid, presumably water, must have happened fairly recently, or it would have been destroyed by meteor strikes, c.f. the earth's moon. What 'recently' means, I don't know. A million years? A hundred million? Definitely less than a billion, I'd guess, but I don't know enough of exogeology to be sure.

jaguar · 02-12-2003, 03:33 AM

They could be quite old indeed, mars is slowly losing it's atnosphere so the further you look back the less the chance of meteor damage, actual scales of time on this though? I have no idea.

chrisinhouston · 02-12-2003, 09:03 AM

They can't fool me, that's just a picture of some kids sandbox. Don't forget when they said they landed on the moon, it was all filmed on a sound stage near Vegas. I saw that James Bond film!

wolf · 02-12-2003, 06:52 PM

I've been spending a lot of time looking at the gullies image, including the larger resolution version available on the originating website.

The "gullies" are certainly suggestive of a formation type known to be caused by water erosion on Earth. There, however, is the operative statement. On Earth. I don't know that we have enough information regarding the composition of Martian soils to accurately predict the behavior under the particular conditions of temperature, wind, and gravity.

We need more information about the wind speed characteristics, the composition and hardness of the underlying rock, and the hardness of the soil particles that would be scouring that surface under a high wind ... which is another thing. I don't see anything that really stands out as wind erosion. Those features may not have changed over centuries or longer.

There are a couple spots near the bottom center of the picture that do look like the coronas that form from a meteor strike. Those are not disturbed much, so I'm guessing that it's not a windy area.

There ARE features which appear to be slips or subseidance of some kind ... particularly at the bottom of that big "hill" to the middle right.

wolf · 02-12-2003, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
That's no rake. It's a kitty litter scoop.

And the rivulets and gullies? From cat pee!

Remember that Night Gallery episode ... really short one? Ran about five minutes ... giant Erector Set mousetrap on some planet with the equally giant mouse?

Drydock · 02-12-2003, 08:49 PM

i'm going to throw out a theory here. i might be missing something.

Could a small comet have hit the area, at a semi-shallow angle, scattering debris including ice/slush to the top left of the picture. The new dust ejected from the impact would not be very hard packed, so it wouldn't take a lot of water from the comet to make the gullies. The water then simply soaked into the ground. The apparent water could be an anomaly rather than evidence of widespread water on Mars.

Thank you, that is all.

"Hey, what is this, some kind of tube?" -Bill Clinton

02-11-2003, 11:13 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	2/11/2003: Gullies on Mars It may take a while to load, but the detail on this one is important. This is an Astronomy Pic of the Day pic showing some of the surface of Mars from orbit. Why this is cool: it sure looks like those formations came from water, doesn't it? And on Earth, similar formations are generally caused by water. So they feel these images are further evidence of underground water on Mars. Not at all far underground, either; 30-60 centimeters. Note that the above image is 1500 meters across.

02-11-2003, 01:36 PM	#3
Shivaaa Recruit or Something Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4	i see it too I see the runway. And I see Jesus with a mustasche in the lower right corner. This is solid evidence that Christians were baptised in the waters on Mars....

02-11-2003, 02:02 PM	#4
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I was kinda entranced by the flaccid penis and scrotal sac at the top center of the pic ... MUCH more convincing than the "face on mars" pic that is in the tabloids all the time. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

02-11-2003, 03:21 PM	#5
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Wolf, if no one has mentioned that you are amazingly astute and more than slightly warped, then it was a major oversight. Did you end up in the mental health industry because of these factors or despite them? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

02-12-2003, 12:19 AM	#10
Slithy_Tove Disorderly Orderly Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Philly 'burbs, PA, USA Posts: 52	Okay, seriously, folks. The escarpment on the left, with the rivulents leading away from it looks like a lot of the features in the 'basin and range' area of Colorado, Nevada and Utah. When I drive from Vegas to the Grand Canyon area, a lot of the geography inbetween looks like this. The rising up of that escarpment, and its erosion by liquid, presumably water, must have happened fairly recently, or it would have been destroyed by meteor strikes, c.f. the earth's moon. What 'recently' means, I don't know. A million years? A hundred million? Definitely less than a billion, I'd guess, but I don't know enough of exogeology to be sure. __________________ == Tove A rainbow rat, a checkered cat...

02-11-2003, 12:01 PM	#2
Uryoces 2nd Covenant, yo Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pugetropolis Posts: 583	The key is to find out when these gulllies were formed. If you look closely, you can see what appears to be a half-buried runway. I'd look at it and say, "Hey! That natural feature looks like a runway; how odd." A conspiracy theorist would start screeching and braining peccaries with a wildebeast femur...

02-11-2003, 03:27 PM	#6
Skunks I thought I changed this. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: western nowhere, ny Posts: 412	All of your discoveries pale in comparison to mine: there is a rake on Mars. No longer will our young be conscripted into slave labor come Autumn! We will conquer and enslave Martians with pride and honor, like our forefathers before us!

02-11-2003, 04:18 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	That's no rake. It's a kitty litter scoop. And the rivulets and gullies? From cat pee! This is the terrible secret of space! Where is the pusher robot?

02-11-2003, 11:25 PM	#9
Torrere a real smartass Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 1,121	There are some hikers out in the woods on the lower left. Above them seem to be two nude women. A big, downtrodden person is dragging their arm behind them on the right.

02-12-2003, 03:33 AM	#11
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	They could be quite old indeed, mars is slowly losing it's atnosphere so the further you look back the less the chance of meteor damage, actual scales of time on this though? I have no idea. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

02-12-2003, 09:03 AM	#12
chrisinhouston Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,857	They can't fool me, that's just a picture of some kids sandbox. Don't forget when they said they landed on the moon, it was all filmed on a sound stage near Vegas. I saw that James Bond film!

02-12-2003, 06:52 PM	#13
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	The Serious Reply I've been spending a lot of time looking at the gullies image, including the larger resolution version available on the originating website. The "gullies" are certainly suggestive of a formation type known to be caused by water erosion on Earth. There, however, is the operative statement. On Earth. I don't know that we have enough information regarding the composition of Martian soils to accurately predict the behavior under the particular conditions of temperature, wind, and gravity. We need more information about the wind speed characteristics, the composition and hardness of the underlying rock, and the hardness of the soil particles that would be scouring that surface under a high wind ... which is another thing. I don't see anything that really stands out as wind erosion. Those features may not have changed over centuries or longer. There are a couple spots near the bottom center of the picture that do look like the coronas that form from a meteor strike. Those are not disturbed much, so I'm guessing that it's not a windy area. There ARE features which appear to be slips or subseidance of some kind ... particularly at the bottom of that big "hill" to the middle right. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

02-12-2003, 08:49 PM	#15
Drydock Lead Subordinate Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 15	Theory i'm going to throw out a theory here. i might be missing something. Could a small comet have hit the area, at a semi-shallow angle, scattering debris including ice/slush to the top left of the picture. The new dust ejected from the impact would not be very hard packed, so it wouldn't take a lot of water from the comet to make the gullies. The water then simply soaked into the ground. The apparent water could be an anomaly rather than evidence of widespread water on Mars. Thank you, that is all. "Hey, what is this, some kind of tube?" -Bill Clinton

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