Which party?

Griff · 07-27-2014, 07:22 AM

So let's say someone is tired of being irrelevant during primary season. Politically he sits near where North-East Republicans did maybe 20 years ago. He dislikes government debt and ruinous wars, believes in the social contract, but also the importance of work and private property. He understands that public private cooperation is a minefield of corruption with the potential to reduce expenditures. He believes in small business and growing the middle-class. He believes that a wall must be rebuilt between religion an state. Which party could be pulled in those directions during primary elections?

glatt · 07-27-2014, 07:40 AM

If you don't feel the pull of either party, I'd look for the party that seems the least organized, where your vote would have the greatest sway. Around here, that's the Ds. The Rs seem to choose their candidates behind closed doors, but the Ds here are slightly more open to voter input. But your mileage will almost certainly vary where you are.

Happy Monkey · 07-27-2014, 09:12 AM

Both parties are to the right of what you describe, but the Democrats are less so, and moving rightward slower.

Griff · 07-28-2014, 05:51 AM

I think it was an NPR piece talking about Bernie Sanders. I always expect Bernie's views to be far to the right of mine but he keeps standing up for small farmers and against data collection etc... I guess he's a thoughtful progressive which is an attribute I wouldn't give the current Dem leadership.

My district is solid red. We had a Dem Rep a few years ago but the national leadership turned on him, I think because of his pragmatic position on the show case issue of gun control. Both parties burn me up when it comes to their "differences." They want to keep abortion and guns as get them out to the polls issues instead of working the edges of the problem. If I registered GOP my primary vote could go to a moderate on the off chance one runs, but my district and let's face it, my world is full of tea party nutters. I can't spend a lot of time with folks that would turn the United States into a mid-East style theocracy in the name of liberty.

Spexxvet · 07-28-2014, 07:34 AM

Recently, imo, Republicans right on the right, and govern more right, while Democrats run on the left, and govern more centrist.

sexobon · 07-28-2014, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Recently, imo, Republicans right on the right, and govern more right, while Democrats run on the left, and govern more centrist.

Freudian slip?

xoxoxoBruce · 07-28-2014, 10:36 AM

I'm in the same boat, Griff. The republicans have had a stranglehold on this county forever. Kids are taught from a young age if they don't register Republican they will embarrass their parents and kill any chance of getting a government job, or anyone at the courthouse/county seat to listen to their problems.

Quite often looking at the ballot for things like school board or a minor office, you see the same name under both parties. WTF? Democrats are way too underfunded to get their position on anything even heard. Want to help that outsider run for office, put a democrat's sign in your yard? It would be a shame if your cousin with the three crippled children and widowed mother, lost his county job. But after all, dynasties must be protected.

Spexxvet · 07-28-2014, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I'm in the same boat, Griff. The republicans have had a stranglehold on this county forever. Kids are taught from a young age if they don't register Republican they will embarrass their parents and kill any chance of getting a government job, or anyone at the courthouse/county seat to listen to their problems.

My father, a registered Democrat, couldn't get into Fair Acres. I wonder why.

elSicomoro · 07-28-2014, 01:00 PM

I don't want to sound biased, but admit it may exist as I have no problem admitting I am a liberal and tend to vote Democratic.

I feel like the Democratic Party, as shitty as they can be, have a bigger tent. There is more room for dissension and varied views while sticking with core values. The GOP is split badly...you have the establishment in DC, some libertarian types, the social conservatives and the Tea Partiers.

And this is what bothers me more: those two parties work together to kill the independent and third party votes, even though they could use them. I know I used to argue that third parties and independents could cause chaos...but the current two-party system has created gridlock. I'm all for trying something different. And I'm not going to just give the Democratic Party my votes. Not that I have always done that...I have supported Republicans that I think are better candidates (for example, Sam Katz against John Street in the Philly Mayor election several years ago). But I'm not going to just go with the Democrats because they are the lesser of two evils...I decided that after the 2012 election.

elSicomoro · 07-28-2014, 01:01 PM

I'm probably riled up from reading Jim Hightower and liberal/progressive books recently, but I believe that we can all work together more and win together more. I don't need to agree with you on every single thing...but I think we can find common ground and compromises that make things good for both of us.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-28-2014, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

My father, a registered Democrat, couldn't get into Fair Acres. I wonder why.

Um... lemme see...ah... hmm... he didn't say please?
But seriously, that shit goes on constantly, it's woven into the fabric of reality around here.

JBKlydeNeedsHelp · 08-26-2014, 03:00 AM

Always vote the current party out of power. Make sure to participate in the non-incumbent primary process so you have a say in who win.

There are 2 parties in this country, the professional rulers and the rest of us.

Big Sarge · 08-26-2014, 08:57 AM

Hi JB. Nice to see you.

Guys, I find so many of my views are moving towards the Libertarians, while others border on fascism. Is it possible to be a Fascist Libertarian? I do know I am not very fond of big government and would like to see more issues handled at the state or local level.

Undertoad · 08-26-2014, 09:33 AM

It is very possible to be a fascist Libertarian ("Freedom uber alles") although they would tell you it's merely the good fight.

Urbane Guerrilla · 08-30-2014, 11:05 PM

No, Sarge, you're probably headed towards some variety -- I'm told there are several, but most of them are off my personal radar -- of Right-Libertarian. Nothing whatever to do with fascism, a statist belief-system, regardless of Undertoad, who really should know better.

Hey, I'm Right-Libertarian myself.

There are three main streams of Libertarian philosophy: Right Libertarian (guns, gold, God, and let's repeal stuff and maybe leave the UN -- or export it, because that would do the job too -- no foreign entanglements), Left Libertarian (legal pot, and let's repeal stuff), and Anarcho-Libertarian (if the state is a necessary evil it is still an evil, and no good can possibly come of it; let's repeal LOTS of stuff).

The thing all three have in common is various degrees of reducing the problems within the governing State by reducing the State, period. Certainly less governing apparatus tends to reduce government expenditures on it, and offers less of a chance, let alone temptation, for political parties to vote the Treasury to themselves and their more supportive friends, which is the besetting sin of any democracy: trouble happens any time a bunch of guys figure out they might vote themselves the treasury.

The minimalist government -- not only is that government best which governs least, that government is best that needs to govern least -- that libertarianism prizes is the complete antithesis of the socialist philosophy, which runs to governing very much. This squeezes liberty and innovation down, and without these we cannot live a human life -- and do not gain anything worth having by trading these away.

So I vote against the Socialist Democrats a lot.

07-27-2014, 07:22 AM	#1
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Which party? So let's say someone is tired of being irrelevant during primary season. Politically he sits near where North-East Republicans did maybe 20 years ago. He dislikes government debt and ruinous wars, believes in the social contract, but also the importance of work and private property. He understands that public private cooperation is a minefield of corruption with the potential to reduce expenditures. He believes in small business and growing the middle-class. He believes that a wall must be rebuilt between religion an state. Which party could be pulled in those directions during primary elections? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-27-2014, 09:12 AM	#3
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Both parties are to the right of what you describe, but the Democrats are less so, and moving rightward slower. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

07-28-2014, 05:51 AM	#4
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I think it was an NPR piece talking about Bernie Sanders. I always expect Bernie's views to be far to the right of mine but he keeps standing up for small farmers and against data collection etc... I guess he's a thoughtful progressive which is an attribute I wouldn't give the current Dem leadership. My district is solid red. We had a Dem Rep a few years ago but the national leadership turned on him, I think because of his pragmatic position on the show case issue of gun control. Both parties burn me up when it comes to their "differences." They want to keep abortion and guns as get them out to the polls issues instead of working the edges of the problem. If I registered GOP my primary vote could go to a moderate on the off chance one runs, but my district and let's face it, my world is full of tea party nutters. I can't spend a lot of time with folks that would turn the United States into a mid-East style theocracy in the name of liberty. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-28-2014, 07:34 AM	#5
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Recently, imo, Republicans right on the right, and govern more right, while Democrats run on the left, and govern more centrist. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

07-28-2014, 10:36 AM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I'm in the same boat, Griff. The republicans have had a stranglehold on this county forever. Kids are taught from a young age if they don't register Republican they will embarrass their parents and kill any chance of getting a government job, or anyone at the courthouse/county seat to listen to their problems. Quite often looking at the ballot for things like school board or a minor office, you see the same name under both parties. WTF? Democrats are way too underfunded to get their position on anything even heard. Want to help that outsider run for office, put a democrat's sign in your yard? It would be a shame if your cousin with the three crippled children and widowed mother, lost his county job. But after all, dynasties must be protected. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-27-2014, 07:40 AM	#2
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	If you don't feel the pull of either party, I'd look for the party that seems the least organized, where your vote would have the greatest sway. Around here, that's the Ds. The Rs seem to choose their candidates behind closed doors, but the Ds here are slightly more open to voter input. But your mileage will almost certainly vary where you are.

07-28-2014, 01:00 PM	#9
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I don't want to sound biased, but admit it may exist as I have no problem admitting I am a liberal and tend to vote Democratic. I feel like the Democratic Party, as shitty as they can be, have a bigger tent. There is more room for dissension and varied views while sticking with core values. The GOP is split badly...you have the establishment in DC, some libertarian types, the social conservatives and the Tea Partiers. And this is what bothers me more: those two parties work together to kill the independent and third party votes, even though they could use them. I know I used to argue that third parties and independents could cause chaos...but the current two-party system has created gridlock. I'm all for trying something different. And I'm not going to just give the Democratic Party my votes. Not that I have always done that...I have supported Republicans that I think are better candidates (for example, Sam Katz against John Street in the Philly Mayor election several years ago). But I'm not going to just go with the Democrats because they are the lesser of two evils...I decided that after the 2012 election.

07-28-2014, 01:01 PM	#10
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I'm probably riled up from reading Jim Hightower and liberal/progressive books recently, but I believe that we can all work together more and win together more. I don't need to agree with you on every single thing...but I think we can find common ground and compromises that make things good for both of us.

08-26-2014, 03:00 AM	#12
JBKlydeNeedsHelp Person Who Has Posted Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 2	Always vote the current party out of power. Make sure to participate in the non-incumbent primary process so you have a say in who win. There are 2 parties in this country, the professional rulers and the rest of us.

08-26-2014, 08:57 AM	#13
Big Sarge Werepandas - lurking in your shadows Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the Deep South Posts: 3,408	Hi JB. Nice to see you. Guys, I find so many of my views are moving towards the Libertarians, while others border on fascism. Is it possible to be a Fascist Libertarian? I do know I am not very fond of big government and would like to see more issues handled at the state or local level. __________________ Give a man a match, & he'll be warm for 20 seconds. But toss that man a white phosphorus grenade and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

08-26-2014, 09:33 AM	#14
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It is very possible to be a fascist Libertarian ("Freedom uber alles") although they would tell you it's merely the good fight.

08-30-2014, 11:05 PM	#15
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	No, Sarge, you're probably headed towards some variety -- I'm told there are several, but most of them are off my personal radar -- of Right-Libertarian. Nothing whatever to do with fascism, a statist belief-system, regardless of Undertoad, who really should know better. Hey, I'm Right-Libertarian myself. There are three main streams of Libertarian philosophy: Right Libertarian (guns, gold, God, and let's repeal stuff and maybe leave the UN -- or export it, because that would do the job too -- no foreign entanglements), Left Libertarian (legal pot, and let's repeal stuff), and Anarcho-Libertarian (if the state is a necessary evil it is still an evil, and no good can possibly come of it; let's repeal LOTS of stuff). The thing all three have in common is various degrees of reducing the problems within the governing State by reducing the State, period. Certainly less governing apparatus tends to reduce government expenditures on it, and offers less of a chance, let alone temptation, for political parties to vote the Treasury to themselves and their more supportive friends, which is the besetting sin of any democracy: trouble happens any time a bunch of guys figure out they might vote themselves the treasury. The minimalist government -- not only is that government best which governs least, that government is best that needs to govern least -- that libertarianism prizes is the complete antithesis of the socialist philosophy, which runs to governing very much. This squeezes liberty and innovation down, and without these we cannot live a human life -- and do not gain anything worth having by trading these away. So I vote against the Socialist Democrats a lot. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

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