Climate change solves obesity problem?

[glatt]

How did you know that when I'm going to that particular crappy grocery store, it's as often as not to pick up a 1.5 quart (can't say half gallon any more) tub of ice cream?

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by glatt

How did you know that when I'm going to that particular crappy grocery store, it's as often as not to pick up a 1.5 quart (can't say half gallon any more) tub of ice cream?

I've used my web spider monkey to compile a detailed dossier of everyone on the Cellar.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Can anybody honestly see any negative consequences to reducing energy consumption, reducing air emissions from coal- and oil-fired power plants, reducing the number of vehicle miles driven, or reducing the earth's population?

Absolutely not. But not at the expense of one countries gain and anothers demise.

[glatt]

If the US becomes the world leader in alternative clean energy, even if the transition is a costly one, won't that dominance in a new area of technology be worth it?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

If the US becomes the world leader in alternative clean energy, even if the transition is a costly one, won't that dominance in a new area of technology be worth it?

I have no problem with that either. It would be a great thing. So why have we not done it? IMHO it is simply the strength of active lobbying and the failure of Congress to make it happen. I have a problem with us entering global treaties which mandate benchmarks we have to achieve while other countries get a pass. We could have raised cafe standards years ago. Why can my friends in the UK (other personal friends not on the cellar) drive small desiel cars made by Ford and other major car manufactures that get 50 or miles per gallon? That is just stupid. Europeans have been driving fuel efficient cars for years. We should as well. I love my big trucks but I am currently looking for a commuter to add to the fleet. There is much we can do on our own as a country and as individuals.

[Clodfobble]

So why have we not done it? IMHO it is simply the strength of active lobbying and the failure of Congress to make it happen.... We could have raised cafe standards years ago. Why can my friends in the UK (other personal friends not on the cellar) drive small desiel cars made by Ford and other major car manufactures that get 50 or miles per gallon? That is just stupid. Europeans have been driving fuel efficient cars for years. We should as well. I love my big trucks but I am currently looking for a commuter to add to the fleet.

It amazes me that you don't see the inherent contradiction here. You think the government should have forced you, who "love your big trucks," to buy a super-fuel-efficient small diesel car, when you wouldn't purchase the somewhat-fuel-efficient midsize cars that were already available on the US market? Yeah, it's all Congress' fault you haven't been buying more efficient vehicles.

And still even now, your solution is to add a fuel-efficient car to your "fleet." Obviously you can afford that solution, so more power to you--but fer Chrissake, don't try and convince yourself that it's the government's fault you drive big trucks.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

It amazes me that you don't see the inherent contradiction here. You think the government should have forced you, who "love your big trucks," to buy a super-fuel-efficient small diesel car, when you wouldn't purchase the somewhat-fuel-efficient midsize cars that were already available on the US market? Yeah, it's all Congress' fault you haven't been buying more efficient vehicles.

And still even now, your solution is to add a fuel-efficient car to your "fleet." Obviously you can afford that solution, so more power to you--but fer Chrissake, don't try and convince yourself that it's the government's fault you drive big trucks.

There really is no contradiction. I need the truck to haul a large boat and a number of trailers. I never said the government should have FORCED me to buy anything. Simply that they should have required the manufactures of said vehicles to raise the gas milage set point for cars and trucks a long time ago. The technology exists. The lobbying prevented it. I have 5 vehicles. One, for each person in the family. Two trucks, one of which is hitting the market for sale this month and that will be replaced by a fuel efficient car. The others are an SUV, which we want to replace with the Mini, and a car that was given to us (my daughter thinks she owns it, she does not) right before her grandmother died, she drives it 14 miles a day to and from school or church. And the oldest drives a small fuel efficient car. So how is making these changes a bad thing? I feel I am doing my part now. Who cares what happened before now, that is really not relevant at this point other than for a historical discussion. No where did I blame the govenment for the fact that I drive a large pick up truck. Hell, at least I sold the damm H2, now that was a gas hog, but gas was also well below $2.

[Undertoad]

When you really need a truck, little else will do. I missed having a truck three weeks after I went to a car. "Let's see, how are we gonna get this done?"

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

When you really need a truck, little else will do. I missed having a truck three weeks after I went to a car. "Let's see, how are we gonna get this done?"

Yea, once you own one there are just so many things that you can do with them that can never be done by a car. I doubt I will ever be without one.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

There really is no contradiction. I need the truck to haul a large boat and a number of trailers. I never said the government should have FORCED me to buy anything. Simply that they should have required the manufactures of said vehicles to raise the gas milage set point for cars and trucks a long time ago. The technology exists. The lobbying prevented it.

I'm not questioning your need for a truck. I myself have a truck. What I'm saying is, requiring the manufacturers to meet stringent efficiency standards would basically take big trucks out of the market. Perhaps things have changed in recent years, but I don't believe the technology exists to make big trucks just as fuel-efficient as the little diesel Fords that get 50 mpg. You don't see trucks in the UK at all, not like Americans drive. Part of the reason those fuel-efficient cars are so efficient is because they're small. The reason Americans don't drive super-fuel-efficient cars is because we can afford not to. Not because lobbying has prevented them from existing.

[TheMercenary]

I believe that is true about big trucks. There is no way that they will be as fuel efficient as a little car, but they could improve. And there is technology to make better engines that are more fuel efficient and until now there just has not been a reason to retool and re-engineer to make it happen. Smaller trucks with more torque to pull larger loads when they need to do so may be possible. Now it is to late. The big three will loose billions, I would not be surprised to see one or any of them closing doors for good if the price of gas does not go down. Maybe we can just get Congress to print more money so we all have some more to pay for gas. I am better prepared than most to absorb my personal costs and I may have ways to make changes in what we own and drive but most people do not have that ability and it is going to be painful. I understand that.

The cafe standards debate, lobbyist's have a huge influence on why things have not changed:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/
4217776.html

http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/20...x_vs_cafe.html

http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/05/11/cafe/

[Griff]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The big three will loose billions, I would not be surprised to see one or any of them closing doors for good if the price of gas does not go down.

Watching Washington "handle" the morgage crisis, I think we can safely assume that major businesses are no longer allowed to fail. Jim Walsh has an article in the current Liberty titled Privatize the Profit, Socialize the Loss. I think that's where we are now.

I'm thinking a home wind turbine and electric vehicle may be the way to go.

[lookout123]

i'm thinking the nutjob survivalists from the late '80's might have been right all along. i need to start thinking about my secret, self contained, fully armed sanctuary now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Griff

Watching Washington "handle" the morgage crisis, I think we can safely assume that major businesses are no longer allowed to fail.

Yeah, they won't let them fade away, just shift major obligations. like pensions, to the taxpayers.

[HungLikeJesus]

I think the reason more Americans don't drive the little fuel efficient cars is they're afraid they'll get run over by TheMercenary in his H2.