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Old 06-15-2009, 06:49 PM   #181
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People who drive without are breaking the law, unless there's some exception I don't know about.
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Yet it happens every single day.
Then I guess I don't see the problem. Criminals notwithstanding, mandating coverage is a proven workable system. I thought you were pointing out some difference between auto insurance and possible mandated health insurance.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:59 PM   #182
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Well perhaps you'd actually like to answer the real questions instead of bringing car insurance into it.
I've asked three times now.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:52 PM   #183
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I'm not sure if you're asking us or the government to address these issues, but I can answer the second one for you: once someone is insured, even if it's against their will initially, they can now go to a normal family doctor for their sore throat instead of the ER.
I have insurance. Last time I got a sinus infection I called my doctors office and told them what was going on (sinus infection, visible swelling on my face). It was a Friday am and I didn't want to suffer all weekend but my doctor didn't want to see me or call in a prescription for antibiotics. She instructed me to go to the ER.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:05 AM   #184
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See if you have a local "urgent care" sort of place. It's like the ER without the battle. Saturday night people convinced me I might have strep, and my local place had me examined and cultured in 20 minutes for a $30 co-pay.
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:16 AM   #185
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Then I guess I don't see the problem. Criminals notwithstanding, mandating coverage is a proven workable system. I thought you were pointing out some difference between auto insurance and possible mandated health insurance.
Paying for mandated health insurance is the problem.
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:19 AM   #186
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I'm not sure if you're asking us or the government to address these issues, but I can answer the second one for you: once someone is insured, even if it's against their will initially, they can now go to a normal family doctor for their sore throat instead of the ER. This will save huge amounts of money right off the bat, because a family clinic simply does not cost as much to run as a hospital. Hospital resources are wasted on non-emergency treatments, and that's a cost that the rest of us subsidize one way or another. What's more, when someone is insured, they are more likely to go in for preventive care and early checkups of symptoms, and thus may never need the emergency surgery they would have required if the disease sat until it could no longer be ignored. We all save the cost of that surgery, too.
But the assumption here is that their family doctor will take the federally funded health program. If the reimbursement is to low many doctors just will not see those patients, like they do now with Medicare/Medicaid.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:43 PM   #187
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See if you have a local "urgent care" sort of place. It's like the ER without the battle. Saturday night people convinced me I might have strep, and my local place had me examined and cultured in 20 minutes for a $30 co-pay.
Good idea... I think there's one right down the street. Although I have to say that Paoli's ER is lovely and battle free.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:43 PM   #188
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I'm not sure if you're asking us or the government to address these issues, but I can answer the second one for you: once someone is insured, even if it's against their will initially, they can now go to a normal family doctor for their sore throat instead of the ER. This will save huge amounts of money right off the bat, because a family clinic simply does not cost as much to run as a hospital. Hospital resources are wasted on non-emergency treatments, and that's a cost that the rest of us subsidize one way or another. What's more, when someone is insured, they are more likely to go in for preventive care and early checkups of symptoms, and thus may never need the emergency surgery they would have required if the disease sat until it could no longer be ignored. We all save the cost of that surgery, too.
They have also been talking about rewarding doctors for preventative treatment on patients so they don't end up with more costly disease treatments later on. I think that is a great idea. If you can get a patient to quit smoking or lose weight, that should be an incentive for the doctor. Preventative medicine will help lower costs a LOT, IF we can shift the stinking thinking in this country.

I'm also hoping *fingers crossed* that somehow the whole issue of how food is grown in this country is brought into the debate. The movie Food, Inc. comes out this month, and that is a HUGE problem in this country that adds to health care costs. The food itself is unhealthy. Obesity is huge problem, and there are many problems that go along with that. Also, many people who aren't fat are still not FIT, and that means they are unhealthy and that also causes health problems.

Another thing that is a major problem is the cost of care in the last few months of life. We need to find a way to reduce those costs.

A couple of thoughts, I know someone said something about this earlier, but the cost of executive pay in the insurance industry is one reason why costs are so high. I imagine the reason why insurance companies turn down so many claims is because they have to in order to keep their executives living high on the hog. And so people who have been paying for insurance end up in bankruptcy or losing their life savings or their homes because their claims are denied. Add to that the cost of advertising, something the government doesn't have to do, and that is another way how costs would come down. (No inflated salaries, no advertising costs.)

Here is a list of a few executive salaries for 2006-7 (you know they are even higher now): ANNUAL COMPENSATION OF HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANY EXECUTIVES (2006 and 2007 figures):

• Ronald A. Williams, Chair/ CEO, Aetna Inc., $23,045,834
• H. Edward Hanway, Chair/ CEO, Cigna Corp, $30.16 million
• David B. Snow, Jr, Chair/ CEO, Medco Health, $21.76 million
• Michael B. MCallister, CEO, Humana Inc, $20.06 million
• Stephen J. Hemsley, CEO, UnitedHealth Group, $13,164,529
• Angela F. Braly, President/ CEO, Wellpoint, $9,094,771
• Dale B. Wolf, CEO, Coventry Health Care, $20.86 million
• Jay M. Gellert, President/ CEO, Health Net, $16.65 million
• William C. Van Faasen, Chairman, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3 million plus $16.4 million in retirement benefits
• Charlie Baker, President/ CEO, Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, $1.5 million
• James Roosevelt, Jr., CEO, Tufts Associated Health Plans, $1.3 million
• Cleve L. Killingsworth, President/CEO Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3.6 million
• Raymond McCaskey, CEO, Health Care Service Corp (Blue Cross Blue Shield), $10.3 million
• Daniel P. McCartney, CEO, Healthcare Services Group, Inc, $ 1,061,513
• Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
• Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
• Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751
• Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
• Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
• Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751
http://www.slate.com/discuss/forums/post/2446099.aspx

(How many freaking CEOs does Blue Cross Blue Shield have anyway I wonder?)

Insurance Company CEO Compensation 2006-2007
Insurance Company Chief Executive Officer (CEO)
2007 Total Compensation 2006 Total Compensation

Aetna Ronald A. Williams $23,045,834 / $19,802,476

Cigna H. Edward Hanway $25,839,777 / $21,014,486

Coventry Dale B. Wolf $14,869,823 / $13,034,126

Health Net Jay M. Gellert $3,686,230 / $6,066,913

Humana Michael B. McCallister $10,312,557 / $5,798,613

UnitedHealth Group Stephen J. Hemsley $13,164,529 / $15,549,028

WellPoint Angela Braly (2007)
Larry C. Glasscock (2006) $9,094,271 / $23,886,169
http://www.insurancecompanyrules.org...tion_2006_2007


I'm afraid this won't get done because Obama is cowtowing to the very same people who have held up health care reform for the past century. Really, if republicans and the AMA and insurance companies had such great ideas on how to fix it, how come they haven't done anything? In my opinion they shouldn't get to have any input. Now they are using scare tactics, just like they have in the past, crying socialism. It worked in the past. I PRAY it doesn't work now. If we don't get it done, then the system will spiral even worse out of control than it is now. People here love to say we have the best system in the world, and they're right, IF you have money, or if you're lucky enough to have good insurance form your job. but even if you have good insurance, it isn't a guarantee that you will get the care you need. They can always deny your claim. Which they do a lot more often that most people realize.

Personally, I think we should base our system on France's system. France has the best system in the world, while we are number 37.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:48 PM   #189
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... hypothetically speaking of course.

And I am asking for opinions here because many times we all look at things from different viewpoints and come up with interesting ideas.
I am also asking the Gov't and have written my "representatives" already.
I am still waiting for a reply.
They are still in the process of writing the legislation. That's probably why they haven't gotten back to you. There will be different proposals on the table, and by the time they finish, who knows what it will look like. I'm with Bill Maher on this. It's all well and good that Obama wants to be inclusive and reach across the aisle, but maybe he should be a little more like Bush in order to get certain things done. Like health care. Like energy.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:09 PM   #190
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Preventative medicine will help lower costs
... and therefore, the doctors income - no real incentive for them in that regard.
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Another thing that is a major problem is the cost of care in the last few months of life. We need to find a way to reduce those costs.
Just kill them sooner?
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I'm afraid this won't get done because Obama is cowtowing to the very same people who have held up health care reform for the past century.
BS
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republicans and the AMA and insurance companies... In my opinion they shouldn't get to have any input.
Hmmm, really?
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They can always deny your claim. Which they do a lot more often that most people realize.
What makes you think that won't happen even more if/with Gov't oversight?
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Personally, I think we should base our system on France's system. France has the best system in the world, while we are number 37.
yeh - France -
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by the time they finish, who knows what it will look like. I'm with Bill Maher on this. It's all well and good that Obama wants to be inclusive and reach across the aisle, but maybe he should be a little more like Bush in order to get certain things done. Like health care. Like energy.
Well if we don't know what it'll look like nor who it will cover nor IF it will cover everyone or just some or IF it will save money .... what exactly are we for?

I must say it was nice to hear in Obama say in his speech yesterday that if you are happy with your plan, or your doctor or your company ....you may keep them. Thats great, but at what cost? I just cannot see how this is not going to cost more than it already does and that means that I, as a productive employed citizen will be paying more. How much more is a major issue to me.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:56 PM   #191
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... and therefore, the doctors income - no real incentive for them in that regard.
If we do it right, doctor's income could actually go up.

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Just kill them sooner?
I didn't say that.

Quote:
BS
He is asking everyone to the table. Since the AMA and insurance companies have been the biggest opponents of health care reform over the past century, what could they possibly have to offer this time? They don't want a public option, but without a public option, there is no true reform.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Politic...7838800&page=1

Quote:
Hmmm, really?
Yes. REALLY. If republicans wanted to do it, they were just in power for years. They had their chance. All they are doing is trying to block true reform. Same with AMA and insurers. They have all had time to do it. Plenty of time. They haven't done it, because they aren't interested in true reform. They like the status quo.

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What makes you think that won't happen even more if/with Gov't oversight?
I suppose it could, but the government isn't trying to make a profit, and that is the difference. insurance companies HAVE to make a HUGE profit in order to pay all the bloated executive salaries.

Quote:
yeh - France -
France does have the best health care system in the world, according to the WHO.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Quote:
Well if we don't know what it'll look like nor who it will cover nor IF it will cover everyone or just some or IF it will save money .... what exactly are we for?

I must say it was nice to hear in Obama say in his speech yesterday that if you are happy with your plan, or your doctor or your company ....you may keep them. Thats great, but at what cost? I just cannot see how this is not going to cost more than it already does and that means that I, as a productive employed citizen will be paying more. How much more is a major issue to me.
It should cover everyone. If it doesn't, Obama shouldn't sign it.

And you have to look at the cost if we DON'T reform health care. If we don't, it will take over, and the costs will continue escalating at an astronomical rate.

I really think it's a shame we aren't even debating a single payer system. I think a majority of people really want that.

One thing no one has brought up, is this is tied to wages. Wages have been stagnant for most people for decades, while rising for those at the top. Health care costs have risen dramatically more than wages. If wages had kept up, the problem wouldn't be as bad as it is. (It would still be a problem though.) No one wants to raise wages though. No one wants to do health care. So we have this problem, and we will continue to have it if nothing gets done, only it continue to get worse. It's the same with energy.

And gee, I'm sorry if you will have to pay more. I don't see how, unless you are above a certain income. There are plenty of productive citizens who are without insurance, through no fault of their own. It's just too damn expensive for some people. And some people had insurance, and still got screwed by their provider. So?
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:35 PM   #192
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Forgive me, but I don't think you are sorry to hear that I'll have to pay more at all. It would seem that in your perfect world we'd all make about the same and have all the same benefits and the whole country would be full of "equality."
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I really think it's a shame we aren't even debating a single payer system. I think a majority of people really want that.
Would that be a majority of whom? People that have nothing and don't care what they get as long as it s given to them or a majority of those who have worked hard and earned all that they have?

The last thing I want is another bloated inefficient Gov't program with someone else other than me and my doctors having any more say in the care, treatment and/or health decisions of me and my family.
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:37 PM   #193
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GIve it up. It is the same old mis-informed tired arguement.
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Old 06-16-2009, 04:46 PM   #194
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Forgive me, but I don't think you are sorry to hear that I'll have to pay more at all. It would seem that in your perfect world we'd all make about the same and have all the same benefits and the whole country would be full of "equality."

Would that be a majority of whom? People that have nothing and don't care what they get as long as it s given to them or a majority of those who have worked hard and earned all that they have?

The last thing I want is another bloated inefficient Gov't program with someone else other than me and my doctors having any more say in the care, treatment and/or health decisions of me and my family.
What makes you think anyone other than your doctor would make those decisions? With insurance companies, pencil pushers make decisions about your health. They deny coverage. With Medicare they don't.

And sorry, but there are plenty of wealthy people who would like a single payer system as well. Or who don't mind paying more so that everyone is covered.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:11 PM   #195
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With insurance companies, pencil pushers make decisions about your health. They deny coverage. With Medicare they don't.
You are completely mis-informed. Medicare denies coverage on a daily basis. Like most insurance programs they require pre-approval and they are among the worst.

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And sorry, but there are plenty of wealthy people who would like a single payer system as well. Or who don't mind paying more so that everyone is covered.
Really? Who are those? Hollywood talking heads?
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