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Old 04-20-2009, 11:19 PM   #31
sugarpop
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If private insurance cos could be forced to do the right thing and stop charging so much, then I am all for it. It seems all they care about though is profits and big salaries, just like the people on Wall Street. I watched something on (it was either) Dateline or 60 minutes the other night about AIG, and how they are forcing veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan to fight for their benefits. it was sickening. And that is business as usual with insurance cos. It has to stop.

If hospitals were required to put cameras in operating rooms, it might cut down on frivolous lawsuits against doctors, because there would be proof of any wrongdoing. That would make doctor's insurance premiums go down significantly, I think. It would also weed out the bad doctors who give all doctors a bad name. What do you think of that idea?

Then there are the general costs. Why does an aspirin cost so damn much in a hospital? It's ridiculous, the fees they charge for certain things. Health care should not be about profit. That is when it all started going to shit. Of course it is a business, and every business has to make some profit, but not the way is it now.

I won't even get started about big pharma cos.
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:03 AM   #32
TheMercenary
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Then there are the general costs. Why does an aspirin cost so damn much in a hospital? It's ridiculous, the fees they charge for certain things.
Because they charge those with insurance and cash paying people to cover the costs of those without insurance plus profit for everything.

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Health care should not be about profit. That is when it all started going to shit. Of course it is a business, and every business has to make some profit, but not the way is it now.
Why not?

Typical General Surgeon training:

Goes to High School. Works harder than most, makes good grades at an early age. Works hard to go to college.

Goes to college. Takes all the Pre-med track to get into Med School, generally studies pretty hard to get into a good medical school. A much harder track than most. Has to apply to Med School and interview at everyone they want to apply to. Needs pretty good grades to get into a good one.

Gets into medical school. Now has to study pretty hard for four straight years, including most summers or a portion of, to get into the specialty they want. For general surgery needs pretty darn good grades in medical school.

Graduates and immediately goes into a 1 year transitional internship. All the time trying to get accepted into a Surgical residency. Say they pass the mustard to get in and you have to work pretty darn hard because there are not that many slots and you get in.

Now you do 5 years, balls to the wall non-stop residency training, no breaks, no summers off. 16 to 20 hour days are the norm. Try that with a family, many do.

Now say you graduate and pass all the bs. Now you go into your case collection period of 1 to 2 years to become board certified, after 1 year you sit for a written board (written test). If you pass that you get to continue to do case collection (fancy way of doing lots of surgery and documenting every single case). After another year you are eligible to sit for oral boards. Here you get to stand in front of a group of people who wrote the text books and defend the cases cases you did as well as answer any question to the exhaustion of what you know. If you do well you pass and become "Board Certified", if you fail you try again the next year and study harder. Many do not pass the written test, nor the orals and cannot become Board Certified.

Each specialty is different for the length of the Residency but the process is generally the same for every physician.

If you want to become a plastic surgeon you do the same as above and then apply for a fellowship and do an additional 2 years, rinse and repeat through the board certification process.

Anyone want to give it all up and be a doctor?
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:45 AM   #33
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All I got from that was that they have to work pretty darn hard and get pretty darn good grades. Sounds pretty darn prohibitive, for most.

Oh, and if they don't pass the mustard, they're screwed. Those hot dogs won't flavor themselves, you know.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:49 PM   #34
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Oh, and if they don't pass the mustard, they're screwed. Those hot dogs won't flavor themselves, you know.
Yea, you can pretty much be dumped at any step along the way and have to at least go back to the beginning of your immediate starting point. Anyone want to buy a hot dog?
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:33 PM   #35
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Merc, I am not saying doctors don't deserve high salaries, because I think they do. I think some of them overcharge significantly, but still, I don't think doctors are the problem. INSURANCE is the problem.

And you still haven't answered my question about cameras in operating rooms.
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:39 PM   #36
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Merc, I am not saying doctors don't deserve high salaries, because I think they do. I think some of them overcharge significantly, but still, I don't think doctors are the problem. INSURANCE is the problem.

And you still haven't answered my question about cameras in operating rooms.
No one is going to agree to cameras in an OR. Forget that. It will not happen.

They overcharge becase of all the patients they care for who do not pay or for the underpayment by federal health insurance programs. No different than what hospitals do to stay solvent.
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:49 PM   #37
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Well then, why do we pay SO much more per capita in this country for health care than any other country on earth? It's friggin' ridiculous, how much the cost of health care has risen over the past decade. We should have done something back in Clinton's first term, but the insurance cos put all those commercials on TV that scared the crap out of people. I think a majority of people today want a single payer system, but Congress will never pass it. The insurance industry is too important to them. (BIG money)

Why is it that hospitals will never agree to cameras in ORs?
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:14 PM   #38
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could it be because they know they'll get the crapped sued out of them left and right if they do that?
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:26 PM   #39
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could it be because they know they'll get the crapped sued out of them left and right if they do that?
Essentially, yes. They stopped video in the OR a long time ago. 99.999999999999999999999% of the time there is no mistake and no problem. So why give the lawyer ammo when something comes up?
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:53 PM   #40
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I think a majority of people today want a single payer system, but Congress will never pass it. The insurance industry is too important to them. (BIG money)
I would consider it, bu I certainly don't want it to be run by the Gov't
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:45 PM   #41
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Essentially, yes. They stopped video in the OR a long time ago. 99.999999999999999999999% of the time there is no mistake and no problem. So why give the lawyer ammo when something comes up?
ummmm, having video in the OR would stop most lawsuits if there is no mistake 99.9% of the time. so again, why don't they put them in the OR? The if there IS a mistake, they can go ahead and settel out of court. it would be a lot cheaper.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:46 PM   #42
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I would consider it, bu I certainly don't want it to be run by the Gov't
I don't believe it has to run by the government, it just has to be paid for by the government. They could have a private industry running it, and it could be overseen by the government.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:48 PM   #43
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ummmm, having video in the OR would stop most lawsuits if there is no mistake 99.9% of the time. so again, why don't they put them in the OR? The if there IS a mistake, they can go ahead and settel out of court. it would be a lot cheaper.
Because provider will not allow it. I do not allow myself to be filmed during procedures. I rarely allow pictures.
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:56 PM   #44
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Why? I don't get it. If it will help you avoid a lawsuit in the future...
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Old 04-22-2009, 06:57 PM   #45
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They could have a private industry running it, and it could be overseen by the government.
A nice independent organization like... say... nuts?
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