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Old 12-10-2009, 12:14 PM   #1441
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:59 PM   #1442
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You saying this healthcare plan is a dead horse? Not sure I get your point there spexster.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:58 PM   #1443
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I will be laughing as he as his premiums double.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:24 PM   #1444
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In House, Many Spoke With One Voice: Lobbyists’

Quote:
ASHINGTON — In the official record of the historic House debate on overhauling health care, the speeches of many lawmakers echo with similarities. Often, that was no accident. Statements by more than a dozen lawmakers were ghostwritten, in whole or in part, by Washington lobbyists working for Genentech, one of the world’s largest biotechnology companies.

...


Some differences were just a matter of style. Representative Yvette D. Clarke, Democrat of New York, said, “I see this bill as an exciting opportunity to create the kind of jobs we so desperately need in this country, while at the same time improving the lives of all Americans.”



Representative Donald M. Payne, Democrat of New Jersey, used the same words, but said the bill would improve the lives of “ALL Americans.”



Mr. Payne and Mr. Brady said the bill would “create new opportunities and markets for our brightest technology minds.” Mr. Pascrell said the bill would “create new opportunities and markets for our brightest minds in technology.”


In nearly identical words, three Republicans — Representatives K. Michael Conaway of Texas, Lynn Jenkins of Kansas and Lee Terry of Nebraska — said they had criticized many provisions of the bill, and “rightfully so.”



But, each said, “I do believe the sections relating to the creation of a market for biosimilar products is one area of the bill that strikes the appropriate balance in providing lower cost options.”



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Old 12-10-2009, 10:29 PM   #1445
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Sad but true. Although thats nothing new.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:34 PM   #1446
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I agree that the spending (upwards of $!/4 billion) has influenced the legislation...watering it down to their benefit.

They (particularly the insurance industry) are now spending $billions more on media buys with the hope of killing the bills completely...because in the end, it is not particularly favorable to their interests.

On balance, IMO, the benefits to most Americans far outweigh the marginal benefits to the affected industries.

Or we could simply go back to the status quo of the last 40+ years, with no meaningful or comrpehensive health care reform.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:38 PM   #1447
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Originally Posted by Redux View Post
Or we could simply go back to the status quo of the last 40+ years, with no meaningful or comrpehensive health care reform.
I'm still not sure that this is comprehensive reform. I'm not sure it really addresses the problems within the system. It definitely adds a lot more people, no doubt there. But there are still inherent systemic problems that have been around a long time.
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Old 12-10-2009, 10:41 PM   #1448
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I'm still not sure that this is comprehensive reform. I'm not sure it really addresses the problems within the system. It definitely adds a lot more people, no doubt there. But there are still inherent systemic problems that have been around a long time.
It addresses far more than just adding people (30+ million uninsured whose health care costs impact all of us in the form of higher premiums, lost productivity, etc.).

For the first-time, it provides protections to the vast majority of those currently insured.....protections against being dropped for pre-existing conditions...protections against excessive out-of-pocket expenses so that millions wont face bankruptcy as a result of a medical emergency...protections against rating discrimination against women....protections against collusion and rate-fixing by insurance companies.....

For the record, I dont think these bills will fix every problem with the current system...particularly the long-term solvency of Medicare....but, IMO, it represents a giant leap in the right direction as opposed to just a small step..or even worse, just standing still.

There are no guarantees. yet, for all the bitching and whining from the right, I have yet to see a better solution.

The only thing we know for certain is that doing nothing and letting the current system continue to fester will not result in that system healing itself in the public interest.

Last edited by Redux; 12-10-2009 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:58 AM   #1449
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Originally Posted by Redux View Post
I dont think these bills will fix every problem with the current system...
particularly the long-term solvency of Medicare....
Huge issue - especially for me. The changes could be potentially huge and destructive.

Quote:
but, IMO, it represents a giant leap in the right direction as opposed to just a small step..or even worse, just standing still.
Giant leap - IMO thats a stretch - a Step forward, yes. It is a beginning. Standing still would be a bad thing. On that we agree.

Quote:
There are no guarantees. yet, for all the bitching and whining from the right, I have yet to see a better solution.
I've not heard one either - In fact, I haven't heard ANY realistic proposal. Perhaps the agree with some of this and their only argument is funding it. I don't think so, but maybe.

Quote:
The only thing we know for certain is that doing nothing and letting the current system continue to fester will not result in that system healing itself in the public interest.
In this case I agree. Conversely, GM should not get bailed out over and over. It should be broken up and sold/given/transferred/merged with companies that have success productive business models instead of keeping that decaying carcass on life support.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:21 AM   #1450
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I will be laughing as he as his premiums double.
2X0=0. Bwahahahahahahahahaha! It is to laugh.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:39 AM   #1451
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This bill does very little to fix the problems in our system. The insurance industry will take some hits but in exchange for a huge increase in income provided by the taxpayers. In the end it will cost every single working person who has a job and pays for their insurance a significant increase in costs. Preimums are not controlled and deductables are not controlled. Very few costs are controlled. Costs will be shifted to the taxpayer and taxpaying public.

In the end an estimated 25 million people will still be without healthcare according to the CBO. That is not fixing the problem. It is a half ass solution and they are missing a chance to fix the problems. Just like the economy the Congress is throwing money at the problem and getting everyone to believe they are fixing it when in fact this is just a few bandaids.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:48 AM   #1452
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The current bill in front of the Senate was crafted not by Baucus but by his senior aid Liz Fowler who also directs the Finance Committee's health-care staff. She worked for his staff from 2001 - 2005 and then left to work for WellPoint one of the nations largest health insurance corps. The list of Demoncrats is long and large when you look at who is paying back their big supporters and lobbying for support of special interests.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:53 AM   #1453
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Glad that the ones voting on this don't have to use it?
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:47 AM   #1454
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Now stop that.
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:29 PM   #1455
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Ha.

Lieberman Rules Out Voting for Health Bill

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/he.../14health.html
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