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Old 01-28-2012, 03:47 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jimhelm View Post
Difference between a drunk and an alcoholic?

Alcoholics have to go to those fucking meetings!

I hear ya, sundae. That was an issue when I went to those OA meetings.

12 step programs are clearly successful, but there are other ways. abdicating responsibility for your actions and placing your faith in fsm to save you ....meh.
You know, I agree with you and with just about everyone else who commented on AA. I could never get the god thing. I've had some interesting things happen to me that make me wonder about synchronicity and Buddhist philosophy and stuff, but god? No. I go to meetings mainly to hang out with other people who are trying to stay sober. I need that camaraderie - especially in this part of the world. I met my closest friend in this town through AA and he smokes just about the most pot I've ever seen anyone indulge in. A big AA no-no, of course. I, on the other hand, keep the local pharmacy in business with all the meds my docs have prescribed me. Also, an AA no no. Any drug whether prescribed or not, is an invention of the devil and is to be avoided at all costs. So, I guess I'm a black sheep but at least I have another black sheep to keep me company. We both don't want to drink again, so in the end, its all good.
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:49 PM   #17
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God put me here for this. God put me here for that. it's Gods blessing that i'm able to talk to you today. i've heard it so many different ways it would make you puke. or please you, which ever you may prefer. when i was locked up you should have seen teh number of jailhouse junkies that "found" God only to throw their Bible in the trash can on their way out of the walls unit (walls is the unit you're transferred to for release.) do i believe in God? yes i do. do i believe the Bible is the word of God? no i don't. read it cover to cover several times. The alcoholic has no one to blame but themselves. it's a control issue. moderation even. controlled moderation. am i an alcoholic? yeah probably so. but in order for me to fix me, it's not going to take God, it's going to take me. I have to be the one to make the decision not to drink. am I? no. i commend all those that have overcome alcoholism and have chosen not to drink. better person than me. pardon the pun here but "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:25 PM   #18
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My old roommate, a native from the Lakota tribe, basically ruined his life because of alcohol. He was valedictorian of his high school and one of the best wrestlers in the state of South Dakota and then proceeded to fail three out of four semesters in row halfway through college because he drank too much.

There was no help for him. He made me fully realize that people are not going to change unless they truly want too. No one else can do it for them.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:02 PM   #19
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It's much the same down under.

Eurasian people have been exposed to alcohol for at least 3,000 years, possibly several times that. Genetic vulnerabilities to alcohol and alcoholism have been deselected to some degree. Native Americans and Aboriginal Australians have only been exposed to alcohol for a few hundred years; they are more prone to alcoholism biologically.

But the main reason, I think, is the social conditions they grow up in. Much the same here as described by SamIam in the OP. Unemployment, low education, bad health, crime and prison etc etc. Hell, when your role models are drinkers, how could you avoid it?

Until 1967 it was illegal to supply alcohol to an Aboriginal person. Well, until 1967, Aboriginal people were officially not citizens, couldn't vote et cetera, due to certain provisions in our constitution. In '67 that was all thrown out, and it became illegal to discriminate against Aboriginal people. Which is a general improvement, but it meant open season on alcohol. Bad.

Now, many Aboriginal communites have declared themselves "dry" and there are laws that enforce this. People were making easy money smuggling booze into dry communities, but this is being policed.

This only works for remote communities where (a) there is no other source of alcohol nearby and (b) the community decides to go dry.

In wet communities, regular towns, and cities, there is no way to legally prevent Aboriginal people from drinking if they choose to, outside of the regular drunk-in-public laws.

If you guys do find a solution, please share.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:52 PM   #20
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I doubt that biology has much to do with it. As I'd mentioned upthread, my family has been touched relatively little by alcoholism. But social conditions are a big culprit for many tribes.
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:24 PM   #21
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I've seen studies indicating tht genetics/biology are *a* factor, but as you say, social conditions (and personal life-management) are also factors. You're probably right that the latter are more inportant.
Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008.
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:44 PM   #22
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genetics can't make you start to drink.
genetics CAN make you more prone to addiction, and make your body process alcohol differently, in ways that make it affect you more drastically.
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Old 01-30-2012, 08:49 PM   #23
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(raises hand)
I get in one beer what most people get in five or six.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:04 PM   #24
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Whereas I've had about half a pint of vodka in the past four or five hours and I barely feel it.
not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:06 PM   #25
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My mom never felt it either. But the rest of us did.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:35 AM   #26
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Behavior is more genetic/predisposed/hardware biological than we comfortably like to believe. We prefer to think that it's entirely up to us and we are a product of our choices and upbringing, but it's just not the case.

I think anyone who's raised a child or even a puppy from day one knows that there were aspects of that being that were there from the start.
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:02 AM   #27
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I've noticed that since I began hormones, I am more affected by alcohol. I guess I'm destined to be a cheap date

I am not even close to being a drunk, let alone an alcoholic. I enjoy alcohol in moderation, as it should be enjoyed. My addiction was tobacco. I've been off the stuff for months now but the quitting process was long and hard and I still hear it calling to me. I am strong enough now to resist even in social situations although I have yet to attempt the ultimate: two beers in a bar with other smokers. That's like four triggers at once. Baby steps.
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:59 PM   #28
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I've discussed this elsewhere on the site, but I quit drinking without AA or giving myself over to a "higher power" or whatever. I went from a 12 pack (min) of beer + blackout every night to sobriety for the last 9years. The day I decided to stop, I had 2 beers left in the fridge. I left them there for 2 years as a test of my willpower. I will never take another drink because I like it too much.

I quit smoking after 34 years the same way. Picked a date and quit my 2-4 pack a day habit. No drugs, no crutches, nothing except sheer willpower. It's been almost 3 years now since I had my last drag.

I have the same pfffffftttt attitude about religion when people say..."oh don't worry about it, God will take care of it". No, God won't. YOU either take care of it or external forces will. My belief is that a higher power doesn't meddle in our business, that's on us.

I think, when people have a big gaping hole in their lives, they will sometimes try to fill it up with alcohol. Some try to fill the hole with religion, or drugs or other obsessions/addictions. Either way, that hole has to be addressed or filled.

I feel sadness at the self-destruction of the Indian people you describe. Such a cultural legacy, being drowned in booze.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:16 PM   #29
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Solid thoughts guys. My issue wasn't so much with constant drinking, although the nightly scotch was headed for an issue, it was with bendering at random intervals. I finally decide I couldn't put the key in the ignition any more, since I couldn't seem to tap the brakes...
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:40 PM   #30
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The Oglala Sioux tribe in Pine Ridge is suing beer companies...for $500 million.

I hope they win, so they can put the money to good use. It would give them the means to fund economic development, which I think would help dissipate Pine Ridge's culture of boozing.
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