The best and worst of 2004

[wolf]

Victim identification is not a game. It's a necessity. Getting the bodies into the ground, or cremated, is also a necessity ... bodies rot fast in the heat, and become a major health problem in and of themselves.

[tw]

Originally Posted by wolf

Victim identification is not a game. It's a necessity. Getting the bodies into the ground, or cremated, is also a necessity ... bodies rot fast in the heat, and become a major health problem in and of themselves.

Any effort wasted to do vicim identification in Indonesia is nothing more than a game played at the risk of the living. There is no time to ID anyone.

In Thailand, they are taking photos, taking DMA samples, and then disposing of those western bodies. As they must. They have time to do ID. They had very little damage and death by comparision. Indonesia has no time for the game of ID. Identification would be a game played with the lives of those who survived.

[OnyxCougar]

This should be good.

How do I define evil?

[tw]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

How do I define evil?

You prefer to view things in terms of good and evil rather than in terms of perspectives. With perspectives, then 'good and evil' are religious and irrelevant concepts. Anything can be both good and evil depending on the perspective. Good and evil assumes the absurd such as "god is on our side". But then with different perspectives, god is on everyone's side. So where is the evil? If everyone is only good, then why the war and all that dead? But again, a topic that belongs back in that other thread.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by tw

You prefer to view things in terms of good and evil rather than in terms of perspectives. With perspectives, then 'good and evil' are religious and irrelevant concepts. Anything can be both good and evil depending on the perspective. Good and evil assumes the absurd such as "god is on our side". But then with different perspectives, god is on everyone's side. So where is the evil? If everyone is only good, then why the war and all that dead? But again, a topic that belongs back in that other thread.

No, I don't. I made a post in the good and evil thread about good and evil, but that doesn't mean I only see things in good and evil.

Of course everything is a matter of perspective.

Do not try to put words in my mouth (or on my fingers) or thoughts in my head. You don't know me, so don't speak for me.

[tw]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

No, I don't. I made a post in the good and evil thread about good and evil, but that doesn't mean I only see things in good and evil.

Of course everything is a matter of perspective.

Do not try to put words in my mouth (or on my fingers) or thoughts in my head. You don't know me, so don't speak for me.

Now I am completely confused. Either 'good and evil' exists or it does not. If it does, then how can the 'evil' also claim god is on their side? After all, 'good vs evil' means god has taken sides.

Ok, you don't always see things in 'good or evil'. However you do see things - some things - in 'good vs evil'. How can you do this when 'evil' always has an alternative perspective? IOW to see evil, one must always deny the other's perspective. And that other perspective says, "god is on our side".

Second, why are you taking insult? I assume you are taking offense at something but I see no reason why. Where is this need for an apology? There is no reason to be insulted in any discussion of facts.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by tw

Now I am completely confused. Either 'good and evil' exists or it does not. If it does, then how can the 'evil' also claim god is on their side? After all, 'good vs evil' means god has taken sides.

Backing up, are we?

OK, good and evil are concepts that are strictly a matter of perspective. Let me give you an example:

A Fundamentalist Christian would say that an actual sacrifice of a living being to God is evil, based on New Testament law. (This belief is open to a bunch of argument that I won't get into here, so please, masses, don't jump all over this.) They would say that some deeds, like helping people and being kind are "good".

Now a Satanist might believe that sacrificing a goat to their god is good, and that doing what other people think are good things is evil. (I don't know, I have no clue about what Satanists believe, so cut me some slack here.)

So you see, TW, good and evil DO exist, but it's ALL a matter of perspective.

Ok, you don't always see things in 'good or evil'. However you do see things - some things - in 'good vs evil'. How can you do this when 'evil' always has an alternative perspective? IOW to see evil, one must always deny the other's perspective. And that other perspective says, "god is on our side".

Perspective, as we're using it here, is a synonym for "morals". My morals may be different from yours, because I may have a different perspective than you.

It's a "good" thing to try to look at all situations from different points of view... I think it helps you to make better choices. But I have to make choices based upon my morals, my perspective.

Second, why are you taking insult? I assume you are taking offense at something but I see no reason why.

I'm taking insult because you are putting words in my mouth and attributing things I didn't say to me. That is an insult to me. It is offensive to me. It might not bother you, but try looking at it from my perspective.

Where is this need for an apology? There is no reason to be insulted in any discussion of facts.

Well, the fact is, I didn't say (or define) like you said I did. So the fact is, you lied about me. You may not see the need for an apology.

It's a matter of perspective.

[lumberjim]

you did ask him to tell you, oc.

How do I define evil?

[OnyxCougar]

and by the way, tee...

This is (unfortunately) a well proven lesson from history. I have advocated more death (in the short term) to cause less overall death and destruction (in the long term).

Isn't that exactly what George W Bush advocated in Iraq? More death in the short term to cause less overall death and destruction in the long term (ie Saddam gassing, experimenting on, and torturing his own people)...

Careful. Starting to sound like an MBA....

[OnyxCougar]

Actually, I challenged him to do it because it's so hard to do. Most ideas of "good" and "evil" that pervade in ANY culture are usually based upon religious beliefs in that culture.

[OnyxCougar]

And this quote about the "rather secret" Diego Garcia....from CNN.com

HONOLULU, Hawaii (AP) -- Location and underwater topography helped protect the strategic U.S. military base on the remote island of Diego Garcia from the killer tsunami that raced across the Indian Ocean.

Pacific Fleet officials in Honolulu said Navy facilities and operations on the tiny British-governed atoll were not affected by the December 26 earthquake or the tsunami it caused. Ships stationed at the base have been sent to Southeast Asia to help the relief effort.

"Favorable ocean topography minimized the tsunami's impact on the atoll," the Navy said on its Web site for the base.

An air and naval refueling station that is home to about 4,000 U.S. personnel and support staff, Diego Garcia is the only U.S. military base in the Indian Ocean, with a deep, sheltered harbor to accommodate submarines and warships and a 2 1/4-mile long runway. During the 2003 Iraq war, B-2 stealth bombers flew missions from the base.

The atoll is in the Chagos Archipelago west of the Chagos Trench, a 400-mile-long underwater canyon that runs north and south and plunges to depths of more than 15,000 feet in some areas. The trench is one of the deepest regions of the Indian Ocean.

"The depth of the Chagos Trench and grade to the shores does not allow for tsunamis to build before passing the atoll," the Navy said. "The result of the earthquake was seen as a tidal surge estimated at 6 feet."

A tsunami is a movement of water extending deep below the surface, and a sloping sea floor would force huge amounts of water upward toward a shore.

In addition to the topography of the sea floor around the atoll, its location meant Diego Garcia wasn't in the direct path of the tsunami, said Gerard Fryer, a University of Hawaii geophysicist and an adviser to state civil defense.

Diego Garcia is nearly 2,000 miles from the epicenter of the magnitude 9.0 quake that caused the tsunami.

The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii notified the U.S. Pacific Command soon after the quake, said a spokeswoman for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

[Roosta]

Good and evil do exist regardless of religious leanings. My wife could testify to this the night I farted into one of her soft toys and gave it to her to cuddle up to in bed. And I don't believe in God!

[Kitsune]

Roosta wins the thread.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by Roosta

Good and evil do exist regardless of...

I salute you sir!

[wolf]

True. I can't see the sacred squiggle either, but I am an infidel.

Perhaps Satan's Face is just that much more photgenic.

Oh, and it would say "underbukse," which you can just make out on the upper left of the image ...