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-   -   Why I don't vote (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=35354)

Undertoad 10-02-2020 11:56 PM

Why I don't vote
 
So I will not be a part of this.

http://cellar.org/img/violenceaccept.jpg

sexobon 10-03-2020 09:47 AM

[Devil's Advocate]

You're also not a part of the majority, of either party, who said "never." That means the minority of either party, which advocates violence, can claim your no-vote as implied consent; otherwise, you would have voted for the party that least advocates violence to indicate your intentions toward reversing the trend.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

fargon 10-03-2020 09:49 AM

If you do not vote you can not complain about politicians.
If you don't vote don't bitch.

lumberjim 10-03-2020 09:56 AM

my non vote is a vote for reform of the whole 2 party system. I also don't bitch much.

Undertoad 10-03-2020 09:59 AM

Quote:

If you do not vote you can not complain about politicians.
i tried it and it turns out i still can

don't know who is propagating this myth

Ibby 10-03-2020 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 1058970)
my non vote is a vote for reform of the whole 2 party system.

"reform" isnt the word i'd use but yeah this is where i'm at. it helps that i live in a state where my presidential vote literally could not matter less, admittedly.

neither party is interested in fixing any of the problems I think need to be fixed, neither party is interested in earning my vote, neither party is willing to run candidates i can bring myself to vote for... so neither party gets my vote. they dont get to play good-cop bad-cop for my vote, bully me into rooting for the good cop cause at least he isn't the bad cop! theyre still both cops, and still both have it out for me. neither one is my friend.

Griff 10-03-2020 10:32 AM

There seems to be a reshuffle a couple election cycles out. Biden is pretty centrist and he only holds the left by being not Trump. The GOP has lost their centrists and are now a fringe party more a personality cult than anything else. Can the Democrats hold labor, big business, and minorities together? It seems unlikely. When the GOP blows apart, where do the pieces land? Independent farmers, small business, and cultural conservatives will be looking for a home.

tw 10-03-2020 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff (Post 1058974)
The GOP has lost their centrists and are now a fringe party more a personality cult than anything else.

Any previous Republican candidate for president was not or would not be invited to their convention. All previous presidential nominees were too centrist - too moderate - too patriotic American. The hate that dominates the Republican part is now that great. KKK, White Supremacists, Nazi, Kim Jung-un supporters, Putin - all were welcome.

xoxoxoBruce 10-04-2020 02:34 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Violence against whom? Immigrants trying to sneak in? Countries trying to defeat us? People trying to vote? That's a pretty loose question.

If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.
There is no neutral with trump, your approve of his antics or you don't.
Violence? Are they going to put a bullet in your mail in ballot?
Don't care one way or the other? Ask what you can do for your countrymen.
Neither one will fix the things you want fixed? Which one will hurt you the most?

Every vote matters this time, it really does.

Undertoad 10-04-2020 08:47 AM

Quote:

Violence against whom?
Judging by current events, any available target. If people aren't available to be lynched, inanimate objects will do

Quote:

Neither one will fix the things you want fixed?
The division of the country is the worst problem we face. Declaring all must take a side is ironic

The problem precedes Dear Leader and will continue to grow after he is gone

footfootfoot 10-04-2020 09:41 AM

Voting for the lesser of two evils sucks and it seems to perpetuate the two party system. On the other hand, not voting for the lesser of two evils, especially in this country often is the equivalent of voting for the greater of two evils.


If I may make an analogy:


Suppose you are hitchhiking from PA to Maine. One car stops and says he's heading to Florida and he can take you as far as you want to go in that direction. Another car stops and says he's going to New Hampshire. Neither of them is going to Maine, but the New Hampshire driver is getting you closer to Maine. Let's say he was only going to New York, still closer to Maine.



Government is like that. Change happens incrementally; there are never direct rides to where *you* want to go so you have to make the journey step by step. Republicans have been playing the long game; they've been slowly working towards gaining control of the courts, which means gaining more control of the legal system especially when the house and senate belong to them.



Yes, the government needs serious reform and/or an outright replacement of all the politicians and newer, updated rules, but not voting won't get you any closer to where you want to go. On the other hand, voting won't really get you any closer but it may prevent you going in the wrong direction.

Ibby 10-04-2020 10:06 AM

sure. but if one's going to florida and the other one's going straight to hell, i'm not getting in either of those cars.

Undertoad 10-04-2020 10:11 AM

there is no maine, the "things I would want" include many things from each side

Quote:

Republicans have been playing the long game; they've been slowly working towards gaining control of the courts, which means gaining more control of the legal system especially when the house and senate belong to them
how terrible of them to win elections like that. evil

Happy Monkey 10-04-2020 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 1059032)
If I may make an analogy:

The problem with the analogy is you're already in the car, and picking the driver.

monster 10-05-2020 12:31 AM

The only real reason not to vote is if you're benefitting from the status quo and don't want to lose that, but know deep inside it's wrong. Not voting lets you kid yourself you're not condoning it. Make up any BS excuse you like. Fact remains you are. You just maybe don't have the chutzpah to admit it.

Either you like how it is -inequity, immorality and all- or you vote for change. You vote for who most closely represents the change you want to see, and then you lobby them to see things more your way. Abstaining is not a protest. Voting for your write-in "The Whole System Sucks" might be. Not voting is a wuss out for those who don't want to admit the privilege afforded to them by pure chance of their color, gender, or birth circumstances, because they know deep inside that it is wrong, but don't have the courage to sacrifice a little that others might gain a lot.

If you feel so deeply that there are things so wrong with all the candidates that you cannot support any of them, then you stand yourself. If you know enough to feel this way, then you are clearly qualified enough, and to get to that level of enlightenment you have also clearly benefitted enough from society that you have a moral obligation to repay a little, by setting it a better track.

And yes, you can moan and whine about the elected politicians even if you don't exercise your right to vote. But you have no moral grounds to do so.

Basically, not voting is immoral. And if you're fine with that, nothing is going to change it. But you're just kidding yourself that you're taking the higher ground.

Undertoad 10-05-2020 12:39 AM

also you must vote in every election, twice a year


your vote for local commissioners or school board members will have far more sway than at state or federal level

Griff 10-05-2020 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster (Post 1059077)
You vote for who most closely represents the change you want to see, and then you lobby them to see things more your way.

This is the crucial bit. You have to be a supporter and a potential pain in the ass.

Undertoad 10-05-2020 09:12 AM

Quote:

You vote for who most closely represents the change you want to see, and then you lobby them to see things more your way.
I want to go to NYC.

Get on board, this express train goes to Maine.

But there isn't enough food for us all in Maine and we don't even have coats.

You must board the train for Maine and bribe the conductor to stop or you are a bad passenger.

But the conductor is 77 years old and asleep.

The only other train goes to Florida and the conductor doesn't know how to drive, do you want to go to crazy Florida on that train?

Absolutely not. I think I'll stay where I am and hope for the best.

You are now LiTeRaLlY an advocate for crazy Florida!!

Happy Monkey 10-05-2020 09:37 AM

You're on the train already.

footfootfoot 10-05-2020 10:21 AM

I believe that voting shouldn't be a right or a privilege; it should be a requirement. You can vote for anyone you want but you have to cast a vote. In every election, as Toad points out.

We also need to abolish the electoral college

Abolish political contributions from any source. If a person receives enough signatures to be added to the ballot then they are allotted a campaign budget that comes out of tax revenue. Everyone who qualifies gets the same amount of money.

Abolish gerrymandering.

Set term limits on all court appointments.

End lobbying.

We don't really have a democracy and the rules set in place ensure that it will be a long time, if ever, before we do.

Wealthy white landowners FOR THE WIN! GO USA!

monster 10-05-2020 11:42 AM

Since I have been eligible to vote I have missed two elections. Both local. One I wasn't in town for but was unable to get an absentee vote in time. The other I was volunteering all day and left early to try and vote but got held up behind a traffic accident and arrived a couple of minutes after 8pm. Mybad on that one.

We are already on the train. If you don't like where it's going, talk to the people operating it, try and persuade them to stop the train or to step away and you learn how to apply the brakes. It may take effort, but beats jumping off or randomly shoving other passengers off. Unless you have no morality.

Undertoad 10-05-2020 12:08 PM

yeah just allow the metaphor to be whatever you like, fuck it i'm out

Dude111 10-05-2020 12:52 PM

I dont vote either...

Its just a game to keep ppl THINKING they have say in things when they really do not.....

monster 10-05-2020 01:29 PM

Yeah, that's why Michigan has female leadership, absentee voting for all, legalized recreational cannabis........ definitely how "they" wanted it to go. Part of the game plan. :rolleyes:

Gravdigr 10-05-2020 02:55 PM

I don't vote cuz I don't give a shit.

I really don't.

I do think that in addition to voting for someone, you should have a no vote, y'know, vote against someone.

tw 10-05-2020 04:37 PM

When one does not vote, then one is voting for the extremists. Extremists supporters vote 95% of the time. A non-voter is asking extremists to make all decisions.

Non-voter is also instructing every moderate politician to pay most attention to what extremists want. Patriotic moderates always vote.

Gravdigr 10-05-2020 09:08 PM

English cannot, CANNOT, be his first language.

Urbane Guerrilla 10-05-2020 11:24 PM

I just received my ballot in the mail today. Along with the wife.

(Along with one for a former roommate, who has lived out of state about three years now. Gonna have to tell the Registrar to purge him from the voter roll.)

Couldn't put up with abolishing the Electoral College, though. Its effect, on exactly one Federal office, is even playing field representation of small states v. large states. The EC has allowed us to dodge a bullet twice in the last nineteen years.

Useful, that.

Both bullets came from the Democratic side of the aisle.

xoxoxoBruce 10-06-2020 03:08 AM

Does anyone believe Urban Gorilla will void that extra ballot. :rolleyes:

tw 10-06-2020 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr (Post 1059110)
English cannot, CANNOT, be his first language.

Why post here? This discussion is for people who are old enough to vote.

jaminhealth 10-06-2020 07:30 PM

I have always voted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude111 (Post 1059094)
I dont vote either...

Its just a game to keep ppl THINKING they have say in things when they really do not.....

And I'm an older soul but new to this group. I'm actually FOR THE FIRST TIME thinking of not voting. I have issues with both parties...but may vote for the Dem party as I always have, but do have some newer concerns.

glatt 10-06-2020 07:34 PM

Welcome, jaminhealth!

What are your newer concerns that are turning you away from the Democrats?

jaminhealth 10-07-2020 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 1059177)
Welcome, jaminhealth!

What are your newer concerns that are turning you away from the Democrats?

Well I'm believing that Fauci and Gates et al are majorally in charge of the New World Order BUSINESS. Forced vaccines and all the forced businesses closed and people in despair...... How about that for my thoughts.....

But could be both parties in charge of it all.....

Flint 10-07-2020 07:36 PM

Wear a mask and go ƒuck yoruself, Troll scum.

Your batshit conspiracy nonsense isn't going to scud any votes here, we're not stupid.

Happy Monkey 10-07-2020 07:37 PM

Is that some sort of QAnon thing?

tw 10-07-2020 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaminhealth (Post 1059338)
Well I'm believing that Fauci and Gates et al are majorally in charge of the New World Order BUSINESS.

Trump and Sanders supporters. Neither are moderates.

tw 10-07-2020 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint (Post 1059351)
Wear a mask and go âuck yoruself, Troll scum.

Take your penis out of your mouth. Act like an adult for once. Not a Trump disciple.

jaminhealth 10-07-2020 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 1059405)
Trump and Sanders supporters. Neither are moderates.

I believe I will vote afterall, I never missed an election in 62 some yrs.

monster 10-07-2020 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 1059123)
I just received my ballot in the mail today. Along with the wife.

all in one piece? dead or alive?

xoxoxoBruce 10-08-2020 02:11 AM

Mail order bride? He is living in the 19th century which explains a lot.

Griff 10-08-2020 06:25 AM

double tap

Urbane Guerrilla 10-08-2020 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dude111 (Post 1059094)
I dont vote either...

Its just a game to keep ppl THINKING they have say in things when they really do not.....

Run for office.

You think the place ain't a free enough republic?

Do take note: if you *don't* vote, and I *do,* I'm the one who gets to enjoy the triumphalism.

I'm a lot more mature than you are.

Urbane Guerrilla 10-08-2020 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 1059424)
Mail order bride? He is living in the 19th century which explains a lot.

Fun aside, Bruce -- a genuinely clueless man would be agreeing with you in all particulars -- having no reason not to. A man with clues is going to be in dispute with you pretty frequently. Are you not so midtwentieth-century demisocialist you creak?

Urbane Guerrilla 10-08-2020 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 1059409)
Take your penis out of your mouth. Act like an adult for once. Not a Trump disciple.

That's a rich one coming from you. You've been totalitarian, sociopathic, and childish since puberty.

Urbane Guerrilla 10-08-2020 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaminhealth (Post 1059175)
And I'm an older soul but new to this group. I'm actually FOR THE FIRST TIME thinking of not voting. I have issues with both parties...but may vote for the Dem party as I always have, but do have some newer concerns.

Welcome; I'd counsel against that, from my vast perspective of being two years older than you. ;) With the Dem Party publicly committed to a program of "impeachment first, offense if any later" it shows it is no crusader for justice.

"Prejudice" has the same three letters at the end.

Urbane Guerrilla 10-08-2020 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster (Post 1059421)
all in one piece? dead or alive?

Wellllll... I'm in the plate armour like the Austrian, and she, like the Czech, is in the mail...

tw 10-08-2020 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 1059578)
Wellllll... I'm in the plate armour like the Austrian, and she, like the Czech, is in the mail...

I do recall Nixon what writing stuff just like this before he resigned.


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