The Cellar

The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)
-   Parenting (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=30)
-   -   My Kid is a Damn Nutter (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=18924)

Clodfobble 12-06-2008 12:13 AM

My Kid is a Damn Nutter
 
The older one, I mean. The next time I'm at the pediatrician's office (that would be in January for his little sister's 9-month checkup,) I'm going to ask her at what age it becomes reasonable to examine for hyperactivity and obsessive-compulsive behavior. I mean believe me, I understand that two-year-olds are typically a pain in the ass, and I honestly feel that I am above-average when it comes to being patient with him. But let's consider a few examples:

--He rejects the concept of brushing his teeth, and we have to physically restrain him every single night to get it done. At no point has he shown any acceptance that this is going to happen, despite complete consistency on our part.

--He compulsively chants snippets of songs and catchphrases at me all day long, and will say his half again and again nonstop until I repeat what he has said to me, or whatever complementary phrase I'm supposed to say. One typical progression goes (exactly) like this:
Him: "ABC Song."
Me: "A, B, C, D--"
Him: "Big A"
Me: "Big A, Little A, what begins with A? Aunt Annie's Alligator, A, A, A." [Continue reciting this book until about letter I. If I stop, he prompts with the next letter.]
Him: "ABC Song."
Me: [Alphabet song sung to a different tune, from the show "Choo-Choo Soul."]
Him: "Number song." [More Choo Choo Soul]
Me: "1, 2, 1-2-3--"
Him: "Bullet train."
Me: "If I were a car I'd be a race car, and if I were a--"
Him: "Jump jump."
Me: "Jump, jump, Put your hands in the air, Jump, jump, Wave them everywhere--"
Him: "Jumping jacks!"
Me: Yes, I see that you are doing jumping jacks.

If at any point in these scripts I don't respond, he just keeps chanting his last line over and over and over until I do. I have gone so far as to lock him out of the bedroom to try to break the cycle. 20 minutes later I emerged, and he immediately picked up right where he'd left off.

--His newest thing this winter is he won't wear long sleeves. Even if it's 40 degrees outside. I figure when he gets cold enough he'll put on his jacket, right? So far he's still stubbornly holding out, and his elbows and arms are red and chapped by the end of each day.

--He can't be trusted to walk on his own in any store or parking lot, though he desperately wants to, because the instant his feet touch the ground he bolts. He's not even going anywhere, he's just going. If I try to hold his hand he deadweights to the ground, forcing me to pick him up, at which point the kicking to be let down begins. He has never in his life walked while holding my hand, ever.

--One of his favorite activities is "drawing with crayons." This consists of taking each of the 100+ crayons out of the box and lining them up on the table in front of him next to the big coloring book. He does not actually ever draw in the book, but it has to come out with the crayons all the same. When they are all lined up, he is done. Usually he tries to color-coordinate them as well, pulling all the blue ones out first, etc.


It's been especially bad since the baby was born, but it's hard to tell if that's actually a cause or if it just happens to line up with a difficult age. I'm really hoping we're at the nadir here, and he's going to start improving as he approaches 3. But the glimpses of light at the end of the tunnel are few and far between.

Aliantha 12-06-2008 12:23 AM

If you're concerned about these behaviours I'd definitely be asking. It might just be him being a bit more cantankerous than other 2yr olds, but it could be something like aspergers which is not necessarily that terrible although it could be.

The point is, better to know than not. Perhaps if there is a problem there will be things you can do to make your life and his a bit easier.

I'm sure it's probably just a very active imagination.

ETA: Actually, sometimes I think my husband has aspergers. His social skills are terrible, he's incredibly clumsy and he has some very weird ideas about how the world works. lol So dont worry, even if he does have something like aspergers he could still have a wonderful life and marry a fantastic chick like me and make babies. ;)

Cloud 12-06-2008 12:36 AM

I think you're right--some very strange behavior. Especially the crayon thing, and the picking up the song after 20 minutes thing.

Def consult the pediatrician.

Juniper 12-06-2008 12:45 AM

Asperger's.

It just waves out at me like a flag.

Sounds like he's a happy kid, though -- a lot of Aspie kids are miserable and belligerent. Of course it's a continuum and comes in many varieties, but I definitely would suspect some kind of autism.

Yes, 2 year olds can be a pain, and weird, but neither of mine ever behaved remotely like that. They were difficult in different ways. :)

However, if he is diagnosed with Aspergers, it doesn't have to mean a lifetime of labels and IEP's. At two, he's the perfect age for learning therapy. A friend of mine has a daughter who, at four, was diagnosed with SEVERE autism. They worked with her intensively and today she is functioning very near to normal, very smart, just a little "off" when it comes to things like accepting changes and understanding social cues.

Ali, it's interesting that you say you suspect hubby is an Aspie. I've thought the same thing about myself. I can be incredibly naive and oblivious, when I really should know better. I had some strange habits as a young child too; in fact the "crayons" thing jumped out at me because it reminded me of myself. I had blocks like Legos and I remember clearly that before I built anything I had to sort them out and stack them Just So. If I ran out time, sometimes that was all I did, sort them out.

Of course, there are many other names for eccentric behavior. ADHD. ADD. PDD. OCD. And when you get down to it, so what, is there ever a "normal" anyway? A lot of "not quite normal" people have just learned ways to cope. Because most of the people in the autism - > ADD spectrum are incredibly bright people that just haven't quite figured out how to manage their blessings, to fit in with the dumbed-down rest of the world.

SteveDallas 12-06-2008 12:52 AM

I'm almost certain I'd have been diagnosed with Asperger's if it had been a choice when I was a kid.

Anyway, I'd definitely get some advice. Not wanting to walk with you could just be fierce toddler independence. (My son used to crawl on the table incessantly during dinner. We finally figured out that he hated having a different plate from everybody else. Once we gave him a big china plate instead of a plastic kid's model, her never crawled up again.) Repeating songs? They all do it. The 20 minutes thing? Hmmmm........

The crayon thing definitely seems odd to me (though I'm hardly an expert). If he were just sorting the crayons by color as a prelude to coloring, that would be one thing... but I think putting them back without actually coloring seems very unusual.

footfootfoot 12-06-2008 10:18 AM

Jeez, I was gonna say he sounds perfectly normal to me. I see a lot of automaton kids who sit docilely in front of the tube or whatever with a blank look on their faces.
Imagine yourself at 14 and the energy level you had at that time and multiply it by 10, subtract any social conditioning about what is acceptable behaviour and you are just at the threshold of being a child.

YMMV but I feel a lot of these diagnoses are more accurately the failure of the child to be convenient to the caregivers or teachers.

I'm sure you've read the Sears books cover to cover and have also read Penelope Leach. Again, you may have a different take, but they can help you sort out a range of behaviors. Especially Leach.

I saw the crazy jumping video you put up and will post some of my own later this week so you can have crazy company.

Another thing to ask yourself: there is a lot of talk about drinking enough water throughout the day to keep your energy levels up, but ask yourself are you drinking enough alcohol? Perhaps not.

xoxoxoBruce 12-06-2008 12:11 PM

Probably just the lingering effect of Monster's visit.;)

Griff 12-06-2008 05:27 PM

Get him checked out. He may have tactile sensory issues as well. You know that feeling you get when you first put on a wool sweater. That is what it feels like all the time to a kid with hypersensitivity. If you get it checked out now and he is identified, an occupational therapist could teach you how to brush his arms to alleviate the problem. I used to do behavioral work with kids on the autism spectrum. It is amazing what can be done if you catch them young.

monster 12-06-2008 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 511246)
Probably just the lingering effect of Monster's visit.;)

:lol:

His behaviours are almost identical the the kids of a friend of of mine, who was eventually diagnosed OCD. But they told her at this age it was too young to tell and that some kids behave this way and simply grow out of it when they go to preschool and school and realize it's not what everybody does.

Could be aspergers scale, but it didn't jump out at me when I met him, althoug aspergers doesn't always, and again, he's so young.

no harm in talking to the ped, though. We just had the "is our kid ADHD" talk with ours. The answer was no, he's just badly behaved...... :lol:

Ibby 12-07-2008 12:44 AM

I dunno. I was that bad when I was a kid, I really was. And now look at me...


...take whatever meaning from that you wish. heh.

Ruminator 12-07-2008 01:34 AM

They are all different in a lot of ways.

Thats alot of great interaction with you, the singing.
Does he revert to the singing, etc. if you are playing trucks and cars with him? He might yet be a little young though for this?
My boys around that age liked me to make tons of sounds with the trucks and cars as we played on the floor driving the little toys around.
I made air brake hissing sounds, motor revving sounds as I moved the truck or car, and lowering my voice to change it said things like, "Bye Joshy, I'm going to work now." as I 'drove' the car to where I had a truck parked in a different place on the floor.
They loved that interaction with me.

He is at a very sing-song age. They love to have their parents sing to them at this time. Try mixing it up with some other songs for him that would appeal to him like Old McDonald Had A Farm, you can really have a lot of fun with this song as you make exaggerated animal noises and mix in some laughing and giggling with him.
I remember lightly poking my boys on their chest and belly and laughing while singing the part of- "with a moo, moo here(poke), and a moo, moo there(poke), ... you get the idea.
Is his singing behavior maybe just his means of interacting relationally with you right now? He may just really need time with his dad as far as the singing goes.
Are you gone for extended times due to work where he would develop longing for you?
Some of the other stuff though, I don't know Clod. The bolting could just be headstrong bad behavior. What are his consequences for it?

But I agree with the others, definitely ask about it.

TheMercenary 12-07-2008 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juniper (Post 511175)
Asperger's.

My very first thought.

Clodfobble 12-07-2008 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruminator
Does he revert to the singing, etc. if you are playing trucks and cars with him?

The singing happens all day long, during any and all activities. He will be watching and dancing to one song coming from a musical toy or DVD and trying to get me to sing a different song at the same time. The only time the singing stops for any length of time is when there are a lot of other people around. At his core he loves people and attention. The thing that makes him happier than anything in the world is people clapping and cheering.

Quote:

Try mixing it up with some other songs for him that would appeal to him like Old McDonald Had A Farm...
Oh no. If it's not an "acceptable" or asked-for song, he screams.

Quote:

He may just really need time with his dad as far as the singing goes.
Are you gone for extended times due to work where he would develop longing for you?
I'm his mom. :) He's with me pretty much 24 hours a day.

Quote:

Some of the other stuff though, I don't know Clod. The bolting could just be headstrong bad behavior. What are his consequences for it?
I catch him and pick him up again. He walks holding my hand, or I carry him. Which means I carry him (kicking and fussing.)

xoxoxoBruce 12-07-2008 12:31 PM

1 Attachment(s)
;)

Sundae 12-07-2008 01:25 PM

I know it's not a popular opinion here, and for any lurkers or newbies - no, I do not have children.

What it seems to me is that you have a very intelligent and articulate son.
He is at an age where he is exploring the giddy boundaries of what he can do to change the behaviour of the people around him.

I like doing this! Wow! If I keep doing this I will make them do it too!
It's almost like a troll, but with no malicious intent - it is all about patterns.

My brother shrieked having his teeth cleaned for years. My parents just manhandled him without trying to find out why. I very much doubt this is the correct response and certainly it distressed my sister and I (and probably caused us some fear of our parents). So I can't answer that one.

But for the rest, I can't see that some sort of request, warning and punishment system can't work. It would simply help him to bring his behaviour into line with what society in general would expect.

Mini-Clod - sing this, sing that
Clod - No, Mummy is busy right now
Mini Clod - NO - SING THIS SING THAT!
Clod - No. We will sing it when Mummy is ready - you'll go into time out if you keep asking
Blah blah blah I know you'll know the Naughty Step and Time Out and all that guff already.

Of course it might be true that you have a child with a disorder that cannot be modified by anything other than drugs, special schools, hospital visits and years of help. Crikey, Clod - I really, really hope not and I hope you look at everything else first.

You might want to try giving behavioural modification a chance - for at least 6 weeks. After all if your son does have any of these conditions, it is what he will have to be taught in the long run. And if he's just exuberant and bright, he'd be better off with them anyway.

Disclaimer - although as I said I don't have children and don't want them, from the age of 6 I watched my mother struggle with my brother, who tested eligible for MENSA when he was in primary school. Everything was a battle. Everything. As an adulty I think a bit of give and take (about not wanting to wear anything but blue) and a bit of ask-explain-threaten-punish might have gone a long way. Instead it all involved me - the middle child - because I hated all the fuss, the special treatment (SO UNFAIR!) and the noise.

Clodfobble 12-07-2008 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl
It's almost like a troll, but with no malicious intent - it is all about patterns.

You're absolutely right, it's about patterns, but he's not actually demanding that I sing, the way a kid would normally say, "Do this for me!" He doesn't even let me finish the songs the majority of the time. It's just a chant he starts and then gets stuck on. He doesn't get more intense, or more frustrated if I don't respond--he just keeps going. He'll chant to himself if I'm not in the room. I complete his phrases for my own sanity, because so far it's the only way for him to move on from the thing he's stuck on. (He does, however, get extremely frustrated if I give the wrong response.) He's grouped his books into seemingly random units that must be "completed" too--for example, if we read the Curious George firetruck book, we have to read the Tonka dump truck book too. (And it's not because they're both about vehicles, he has dozens of that type. I personally suspect it's because they're both mostly yellow.) Those books cannot be read individually, no matter how many other books we do or don't read.

Clodfobble 12-07-2008 03:36 PM

Wanted to add that I didn't take your suggestions indignantly--I wholeheartedly agree that a lot of kids' problems are directly traceable to pushover parents. We are, if anything, more authoritative with him than we have been with the other kids, because I know he responds well to very defined and immobile boundaries. Give him an inch, he'll want to take a mile. After enough consistency, he's usually pretty good about accepting that this is "just the way things are." Of course, God help us if we then need to change the pattern ourselves, because it isn't happening. :)

classicman 12-07-2008 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 511435)
I wholeheartedly agree that a lot of kids' problems are directly traceable to pushover parents.

85% of all problems are directly traceable to parents - or something like that.

Griff 12-07-2008 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman (Post 511473)
85% of all problems are directly traceable to parents - or something like that.

I think it's, 85% of all parents forget they're top management.

ZenGum 12-07-2008 08:49 PM

A lot of this sounds like classic autism behaviour, especially getting stuck in loops and insisting on certain routines.
If it is, it will be a challenge but it's not a disaster. Accurate diagnosis and appropriate management will make all the difference. Best of luck with the little fella.

Ruminator 12-07-2008 11:34 PM

I see Clod. Wow man, this has all got to be wearing you down.

Get the little guy checked out Clod, definitely.

glatt 12-08-2008 09:45 AM

I've got nothing terribly insightful to add, just that from the description, this sounds like more than just your standard 2 year old nutty behavior and you should discuss it with your pediatrician at the next opportunity.

lookout123 12-08-2008 12:19 PM

Maybe I'm missing something in here but I don't really see a problem in here. Kids are kids.

Quote:

He rejects the concept of brushing his teeth, and we have to physically restrain him every single night to get it done. At no point has he shown any acceptance that this is going to happen, despite complete consistency on our part.
Lil Lookout until he was five. Otherwise bizarrely aware of hygene, just didn't like the toothbrush. He grew out of it.

Quote:

He compulsively chants snippets of songs and catchphrases at me all day long, and will say his half again and again nonstop until I repeat what he has said to me, or whatever complementary phrase I'm supposed to say. One typical progression goes (exactly) like this:
I remember Lil Lookout doing this. His were television jingles and kidzbop stuff though. I think he was three. He still loops on lyrics but doesn't require any outside intervention unless I'm especially tired of hearing a particular lyric. He is always singing or humming. always.
Quote:

If at any point in these scripts I don't respond, he just keeps chanting his last line over and over and over until I do. I have gone so far as to lock him out of the bedroom to try to break the cycle. 20 minutes later I emerged, and he immediately picked up right where he'd left off.
Again Lil Lookout. If he asks a question at night (usually a stalling technique) that I don't answer he WILL wake up with the question on his lips.
Quote:

His newest thing this winter is he won't wear long sleeves. Even if it's 40 degrees outside. I figure when he gets cold enough he'll put on his jacket, right? So far he's still stubbornly holding out, and his elbows and arms are red and chapped by the end of each day.
LL is 7 and hates long pants with a bloody passion. complete freakout. Even visiting in illinois during winter he wears shorts. (but so do I when I can get away with it.) he had to wear jeans for a school function today and it was a 30 minute fight. There is no logical reason other than he just doesn't like them. OK.
Quote:

One of his favorite activities is "drawing with crayons." This consists of taking each of the 100+ crayons out of the box and lining them up on the table in front of him next to the big coloring book. He does not actually ever draw in the book, but it has to come out with the crayons all the same. When they are all lined up, he is done. Usually he tries to color-coordinate them as well, pulling all the blue ones out first, etc.
2.0 behaves like this. he is only 21 months now but a very very active problem solver. he likes to take things apart and organize the pieces. if left on his own he will take Lil Lookout's big box of star wars toys and line the men and weapons up by shape and color order. He calls that playing. (at least the way he says "playing") He does the same with dvd boxes, shampoo bottles, etc. He'll actually go into the cabinets and reorganize the tupperware into well defined order. strange to me, but it's his thing.

I'm certainly not dismissing your concerns and would certainly support the suggestion to have him tested, but I wanted to point out that nothing you've described is really that out there. Kids are kids and they all have their own quirks and stages. I will say this, though. Everytime (so far) Lil Lookout has picked up a quirk that was really bugging me to the point of being a REAL problem it would fade away on it's own.

chin up, mom - you've got a boy.

classicman 12-08-2008 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123 (Post 511616)
chin up, mom - you've got a boy.

Thats exactly what I was thinking! Seemed too simplistic a response though.

lookout123 12-08-2008 01:47 PM

Could be. I've been accused of being simple more than once in my life.

Juniper 12-08-2008 04:00 PM

Having a kid with a disorder like autism or asperger's does not mean the only way to deal is with drugs and other special means. Unless the problem is severe - and I doubt it, even if there is some of this happening with mini-clod - it usually IS treated with behavioral modification.

Diet modification too. Sometimes odd behaviors in children (and probably adults as well) are caused by allergies or sensitivities to food, such as gluten, wheat products, artificial dyes, etc.

That said, if his quirks don't interfere with happiness, safety and daily success, there's nothing wrong with being a bit of a nutter. :)

That's what I keep telling people who don't understand me! ;)

ZenGum 12-08-2008 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123 (Post 511616)
He does the same with dvd boxes, shampoo bottles, etc. He'll actually go into the cabinets and reorganize the tupperware into well defined order.

That's not a boy, that's a House Elf.
Send him around, will you, the place is a mess.

Clodfobble 12-08-2008 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123
chin up, mom - you've got a boy.

Well at least I know he'll be good at soccer. ;)

Seriously, I'm eagerly waiting for him to hit three, when all the little kid sports become available to him. We are always looking for ways to burn off the energy. He can choose any sport he wants, as long as it isn't (American) football.

Juniper 12-08-2008 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 511870)
Well at least I know he'll be good at soccer. ;)

Seriously, I'm eagerly waiting for him to hit three, when all the little kid sports become available to him. We are always looking for ways to burn off the energy. He can choose any sport he wants, as long as it isn't (American) football.

My God, you are SO right. My daughter, from about 2 on, pushed every last one of my buttons and drove me NUTS - though for different reasons than your mini-clod. As soon as I got her started in gymnastics, with its intense conditioning (and a few other sports she tried, time to time) she was oh, so much easier to deal with and happier, too.

I noticed something similar with my son. He was having school troubles - even more so than now - and when he started wrestling everything changed.

Not saying that in either case it was an instant cure, but the sports help in so many ways.

I really wonder how different my life would have been if I had been able to play sports.

monster 12-08-2008 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 511870)
Well at least I know he'll be good at soccer. ;)

Seriously, I'm eagerly waiting for him to hit three, when all the little kid sports become available to him. We are always looking for ways to burn off the energy. He can choose any sport he wants, as long as it isn't (American) football.

Have you tried stuff that's "too old' for him? Real lego (not duplo) for example? It's possible that he's just super smart and bored out of his skull, so opts for the comfort of interacting with you and knows what pushes your buttons.... are there any activities he gets 'lost' in, even for little bit?

Clodfobble 12-08-2008 11:42 PM

Oh sure, he can focus on lots of things for long periods of time, especially anything musical. He knows how to use the keyboard (the piano-kind, with programmable voices and all that) better than I do. The non-typical aspect would be that he constantly twists back and forth in the chair while he's playing with it, or climbs onto and off of the couch repeatedly while looking at a book, or just tries to make himself dizzy for a half-hour or more at a time. If he's sitting still, it's usually the first sign that he's sick. :)

Sundae 12-09-2008 09:26 AM

My favourite game pre-school was to make myself dizzy with the broom. You know, dig it into the ground by lurching round and round it until letting go to get a dizzy "high". I was banned after a while, because Mum thought I was doing it too much. In a file of my oldest memories is being asked to explain the inevitable, resulting Broom Holes in the grass. I felt like a junkie trying to explain away needle marks. I have a picture of me with the broom, grinning like it was my best pal, my hair puts me at about 3.5.

Good luck Clod. Your son does not sound normal. I'll love to respond "Neither was I and look how I turned out!" but then you'll have to be prepared for him to come back in 30-odd years to live with you. I hope he turns out in the best way of not-normal. Like, the rest of the Cellar sort of way :)

My brother in the other hand was the weirdest of all of us. My sister and I loved Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing and Superfudge because we finally realised we weren't alone. He is 32 now, working for The Treasury and happily married. One of the few things that I think, "If I knew then what I know now" would be to go back to those times and realise at an emotional level that he was family, he was never being sent back and be nicer to him much earlier.

Steven, I love you.

Beest 12-09-2008 01:14 PM

having read all the other responses,

Normal is over rated, maybe you could get a diagnosis of some such, many of us could. I played with him, he seemed OK, he put his toys back in place when I moved them, but he didn't have a fit about it, we built some block towers too.

Cabin fever. It sounds like he's bursting at the seams and needs to get out and do stuff , with other kids. Anybody who knows our kids schedules, swimming, soccer, gymnastics, hockey etc. etc.
At that age I think there was a baby tumbling thing, and swimming of course.

Clodfobble 12-09-2008 01:30 PM

Yeah, I signed him up for one of those baby tumbling classes, at The Little Gym. He enjoys it, but its primary benefit for him has been learning to take turns, stop playing with one item and move onto the next even if he's not ready, etc. It's been good, but for the money I don't think I'll do it again. Much better has been "Inflatable Wonderland," a huge arena full of those bouncy-castle things. It's $5 for an all-day pass for him, and he'll bounce and throw himself around for upwards of three hours. And if he's not tired yet, we can go eat and come back and bounce some more. That place is great. He loves swimming too, but it's not easy to take both kids by myself. I have this notion that I want to avoid using floaties on him, so he can learn to swim on his own from the beginning. But I should probably just abandon that idea, it would be so much easier if he were floating on his own.

monster 12-10-2008 05:38 PM

the difference between the inflatable place and a gym class is that in the class he sees the same kids again and again and gets to make friends. There's no social aspect to the bouncy place, other than fleeting interactions with strangers. Try to find a playgroup of some sort. if you go regularly to the bouncy place at the same time, you might well find yourself hooking up with other moms with kids the same age and your kids might even play nicely together. Sometimes. This is how our playgroup got started and we (moms)still meet weekly, even though the youngest is now in second grade.

It's better not to have the floaties for swimming if you can avoid it. could you hire a "mother's helper" for an hour to watch foblette on the pool side while you take a parent/tot class with Mini? are evening classes a possibility? could you sing up both kids for the same class and rope Mr Fob in?

limey 12-13-2008 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum (Post 511838)
That's not a boy, that's a House Elf.
Send him around, will you, the place is a mess.

:biglaugha

Goddit 12-13-2008 07:40 PM

nutter?
 
He sounds like a normal kid to me. Certainly he wants attention and you should (I never like using that word so forgive me) make a point of giving him one-to-one attention for a good period in the day. I totally dig the singing thing. My 3.5 year old does the same thing.
But please....your child is not a nutter. He will pick up every nuanced negative vibe you have towards him...it's not deliberate, kids just have a very sensitive subconscious built-in 'mummy is annoyed' radar that makes them want to pull your strings more.
If you get cheesed off with him, he will sense it and keep annoying you until he gets what he wants. Give him a little of what he wants. Set your boundaries. If he breaks them, time him to the corner or a stair (don't call it a 'naughty' corner.....kids only end up thinking they are naughty). In car parks, put a harness on him (yeah, I heard the whole 'but they're not animals' argument....it's not much of an argument if your child gets hit by a car).
Give him some responsibility....sing songs together while you both do the dishes.
But remember, the more you resist, the more it persists.

Clodfobble 01-09-2009 03:23 PM

Update: so at his sister's checkup, I got to mention a few things to the pediatrician, and of course she also got to witness again his general behavior when he's in an environment he doesn't like (in this instance, he was hanging off the door handle screaming bloody murder trying to escape the exam room, and giving extra punctuation to his protests when the doctor would look at or touch the baby--not him.) She referred us to an occupational therapist, and recommended strongly that we go. So we have an appointment for Tuesday. I'm kind of ambivalent about whether this lady will be able to help, but I was at least encouraged by the new child-patient questionnaire. It was 7 pages long and included a lot of surprises along the lines of, "Hey! Yeah, he does do that!" Lots of stuff that is not in the typical Autism/Asperger set of symptoms, which he honestly doesn't match up with at all. So at the very least they've dealt with his brand of crazy before. :)

Shawnee123 01-09-2009 04:02 PM

Probably his young brain just needs to catch up with how smart he is...if he's anything like Mom. :)

Keep us posted.

lookout123 01-09-2009 04:05 PM

good news. he's probably just acting out because the kids at preschool tease him about the pictures of his mom peeing on the liquor store floor.

footfootfoot 01-09-2009 09:29 PM

Was that Clodfobble?

Clodfobble 01-09-2009 10:08 PM

I'm tempted to go do it and post the picture just to live up to the hype.

Beestie 01-09-2009 11:01 PM

I think he'll always be moody but the only thing wrong with him is that his mind is too far ahead of his brain.

Once his brain catches up, stand back and be amazed. I suspect he's going to need a lot of stimulation to stay interested so plan ahead or prepare to deal with a child who doesn't handle boredom very well.

Just an opinion based on what I've read so far.

Griff 01-10-2009 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 520585)
Update: so at his sister's checkup, I got to mention a few things to the pediatrician, and of course she also got to witness again his general behavior when he's in an environment he doesn't like (in this instance, he was hanging off the door handle screaming bloody murder trying to escape the exam room, and giving extra punctuation to his protests when the doctor would look at or touch the baby--not him.) She referred us to an occupational therapist, and recommended strongly that we go. So we have an appointment for Tuesday. I'm kind of ambivalent about whether this lady will be able to help, but I was at least encouraged by the new child-patient questionnaire. It was 7 pages long and included a lot of surprises along the lines of, "Hey! Yeah, he does do that!" Lots of stuff that is not in the typical Autism/Asperger set of symptoms, which he honestly doesn't match up with at all. So at the very least they've dealt with his brand of crazy before. :)

You may want to pick up a copy of: The Out of Sync Child by Carol Stock Kranowitz. I just started reading it for work. It will challenge some folk's behaviorist doctrine unless they realize that biology determines how sensory inputs are processed. We also have to keep in mind that brain science is moving so fast that best practice will struggle to keep up. On a semi-related note, I'm training a kid in fencing with some body-in-space issues. It's interesting figuring out how to get him to find himself in a real world situation rather than a classroom.

Clodfobble 01-13-2009 06:16 PM

Well.

In case I had any doubts that we were doing the right thing by getting him evaluated, the last few days have been the absolute worst he's ever been. He's been completely insufferable and uncontrollable, instead of just a little "off" like he normally is. The hairtrigger emotional meltdowns with no cause (as opposed to the standard daily "going to bed" and "sitting down to eat" and "not getting to run in the parking lot" meltdowns) skyrocketed from once every few days to about 3-4 per day.

We spent an hour with the occupational therapist this morning, and she gave a general diagnosis of Sensory Processing Disorder (which is the topic of the book Griff recommended, points duly awarded,) with some other red flags (like the lyric-reciting, toy-car-spinning, and the fact that he has a very high vocabulary yet for the most part does not speak in sentences or use pronouns) that may indicate PDD-NOS after further evaluation, which is basically the catchall diagnosis for high-functioning autistic disorders that don't match up with Asperger's or one of the other common ones.

This is not really news to us of course, but it still makes me really sad.

On the one hand, we have caught it relatively early, which is great for treatment options, but it also means that we don't yet know what other idiosyncrasies may develop. As an example, he currently has no muscle tone in his lower face, presumably because he has tuned out those muscles because of constant over- and under-sensed oral inputs. Right now the only outward sign is slackness and drooling, but without improvement, it could lead to greater speech problems down the road, which would impair communication/self-esteem and possibly lead to the more recognizable Asperger's symptoms like non-sociability and poor communication skills. There are specific regimens we're supposed to use to get him to learn how to move and sense his mouth normally, like spray this incredibly sour liquid on his lips and pull on the insides of his cheeks in that typical "funny face" kids do. He thinks the sour stuff is great (it is painfully sour to most people) but really, really doesn't want me messing with his cheeks (which is exactly why I have to do it, but getting bitten is not fun.) Another thing I'm supposed to do is make all of his toys as heavy as possible, because it will help his muscles and movement if he gets more feedback from the things he is doing. In most cases this means drilling small holes and filling them with sand or rice. He freaked out about the weight belt at the therapist's office, so I'm also working on finding ways to make his clothes heavier, possibly by sewing little bean bags into the legs of his pants.

We will be going to the occupational therapist once a week for now. Twice a week is also an option, but our insurance only covers 60 visits for the lifetime of the patient, and we would burn through them pretty quickly at that rate. But that's per diagnosis, so the workaround for that is to leave him at a diagnosis of only SPD for now, and then upgrade him to PDD for another 60 visits, but really treat him for both the whole time.

Regardless, I really hope this week was just a bad week and not an indication of his new baseline. It was pretty damn rough.

lookout123 01-13-2009 06:27 PM

:comfort: I'm sorry your fears were confirmed but it sounds like you've got a handle on the right way to go now.

Griff 01-13-2009 06:33 PM

The school district will be responsible for the cost of those treatments at some point, make sure any diagnosis is listed on his IEP. This is tough but you're tougher. Keep an eye out for respite care opportunities like local college kids etc... You're in this for the long haul so take care of yourselves and each other.

footfootfoot 01-13-2009 08:02 PM

Clod, I'm having trouble putting the right words to how I feel. I hope you and Mr. Fob are bearing up well. I know that you are an Uber mom so I'm not too worried about the little one. It's the Uber moms who need the support.

Feel free to pm Griff. I probably won't be too helpful, but I'll try.

monster 01-13-2009 08:31 PM

Fobble, that's a hard reallity to face, and no doubt. but it's good news. it's good that you noticed something wasn't right and didn't play ostrich, it's good that you know you weren't imagining it, it's good that you know you're not alone -if you were, there wouldn't be a diagnosis or treatment plan, it's good that there are lots of things you can do to help and it's good that you have insurance that will pay.

It does suck that you have to rename the diagnosis periodically to get continued insurance coverage, but as Griff said, the school system should take over at some point. Get an IEP as soon as you can -in many places, public preschool is available for kids who need an IEP -start asking now.

glatt 01-13-2009 08:43 PM

I'm sorry you got the diagnosis that you did. It means you now know that you are facing more work at being a parent, and I'm sure that's not something you are thrilled about. But I know you are a good mom, and he's really fortunate that he has you. Like you said, you caught it early and that gives you more options.

I have no insights to add, just that you have always come across as someone who has her head screwed on right. I hope you guys are able to take this in stride and just work with it, and continue to find the joy in life. You'll have more challenges now, but I think you are capable of them.

Griff 01-13-2009 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 522003)
Feel free to pm Griff.

Absolutely. Make sure you keep this or a similar thread going in case you hit a bump in the road that some dwellar can smooth.

Aliantha 01-13-2009 11:36 PM

I'm really sorry Clod. I know there's not much I can do, but believe me, I'll be thinking of you.

xoxoxoBruce 01-14-2009 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 522024)
I hope you guys are able to take this in stride and just work with it, and continue to find the joy in life. You'll have more challenges now, but I think you are capable of them.

I think you'll get the same joy from his progress and growth, maybe even more, even if the steps are smaller.

I'm also thinking that you and Mr Clod, have got to plan and do this together, sharing the work and rewards equally. That mutual support, in a team of equals, is a force multiplier that adds up to the equivalent of three. Add your support here, and there is no way this can beat you... you'll do good. :thumb:

wolf 01-14-2009 02:17 AM

As hard as it is, "having a diagnosis," at least you now know something, and can be as proactive as possible.

Talk to the treatment staff about other funding options and community supports that you can utilize. That 60 visits per diagnosis thing is brilliant.

Beestie 01-14-2009 06:22 AM

I think your son is lucky to have you as his Mommy.

Try to keep in mind when the burden seems heavy that your son needs you the most when he acts like it the least.

Shawnee123 01-14-2009 08:31 AM

Your son IS very lucky to have you as a mom.

I don't have any words of wisdom, except to say that what others have said here is (are?) right on.

Sundae 01-16-2009 10:32 AM

Same as the others Clod. You identified a problem. You were switched on enough to realise this was not a normal behavioural blip. You love him enough to follow the guidelines, and bridge the gaps in knowledge with good parenting.

You're a great person. Your son was longed for, hard fought for and is still a beautiful human person. Parents get surprised all their lives - some of them really unpleasant surprises. You have something you can work with, and we already know you're prepared to fight against the odds. And hey - normal kids like me end up at home at age 36 battling depression! No loving parent really gets an easy ride.

You have my admiration and (as much as a forum member can) my love. Keep us updated - whether it's pathos, whinging, or downright slap the desk humour, I for one will eat it up.

TheMercenary 01-16-2009 04:50 PM

Clod, I have a very good friend who has an Aspy child who is now about 8 or so. If you would like someone personal to talk with and commo with, who may have gone through some of what you are going through, please let me know and I will hook you up so you can talk directly to another mother.

Drop me a pm if you want the contact info, in case I don't check back here soon.

Trilby 01-17-2009 10:22 AM

I was in the middle of reading this thread when I was interrupted. Clod, you are an awesome person and parent. You are wickedly intelligent, grounded, balanced...I admire you for so many reasons. This little boy picked you to be his mom and he knows you can handle it (even though you will need some help. We all need help) I wish I could convey what I mean more clearly---at times of great emotion, I come off sounding like a loon. Anyway---what I mean is this: I KNOW you can do this. Ask for help. He's lucky to have you.

limey 01-18-2009 05:55 AM

Adding my good wishes to the pile, Clod. It may not seem like it at the moment, but identifying the problem is three-quarters of the solution.
Hugs to you and your family.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.