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BigV 09-15-2016 11:13 PM

Excellent article. Please read.

Griff 09-16-2016 06:34 AM

I'm only part way through the article but I'm wondering about the idea that an enormous number of people would watch the debates. I suppose reality tv still exists and Trump supporters are likely to tune in for that and Hillary supporters seem to be in a place where they believe the process and their candidate is real so maybe they will watch two horrible people for three evenings. I don't think this will be a Lincoln / Douglas situation. They argued over how to save a Republic. No this is two jackals over a carcass. Car crashes do get rubber necking but when they start pulling out the bodies I think it'll just make people feel sad and slightly guilty that our generation is the one that quit on the American experiment.

Undertoad 09-16-2016 09:45 AM

Read a couple paragraphs before I remembered I don't give a shit. But that was long enough to dismiss it:

The debates are far different from the past. In 1960 they represented a great deal of the information people would get about the candidates. TV was a fresh medium, 95% of news arrived at the house in print, and most people had not seen the candidates "live" very often, if at all.

Today we have seen and heard them so much we want to puke, a year before they ever set foot on a debate stage.

In 1960 a lot of people would be moved by the debate as to whom they should vote for. Today that is unthinkable. Almost all people are highly polarized, and almost all of them have decided months ago. Most people will watch because they are interested to see how bad the candidate they don't like is.

Griff 09-17-2016 12:58 PM

I wonder if the tv folk realize how irrelevant they are?

John Sellers 09-17-2016 04:27 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Daniel Dale yesterday on Twitter
Donald Trump just did a speech in Miami. He said nine false things:
Attachment 57901

It has over 10,000 likes, and over 11,000 far.

Sundae 09-19-2016 04:33 AM

Well, the three main props of the "Leave" campaign have now been kicked out from under them and exposed as lies.
But people still voted because of those lies. Some intelligent people had their own reasons for wanting Brexit, but many voted because of ridiculous soundbites.

I remember when I was in my early teens, first taking an interest in politics, and it became apparent someone in a very high position of power had lied. I don't even remember who it was or what he'd done. I just remember being so confused. When people were "exposed" in Enid Blyton books, or even on Scooby Doo, no-one ever believed them again and they were officially Bad People. Then I learned how the real world was much more broken than that.

I don't know the facts about the above post re Trump. But I do believe he is a liar. Okay, it helps that his politics are pretty much opposite mine - you always want to believe the worst of those people. But I find him scary.

Bit of British politics:
I do not approve of Theresa May's politics. I would not vote for her as Prime Minister - although we don't vote for party leaders here. But if we have to have a Conservative in Government, she's probably the best of a bad bunch. I don't think she's corrupt. I admire Jeremy Corbyn (Labour) for his vision, but he's the wrong man at the wrong time. Far too divisive. And I'm not sure I trust him either. I think he's been sneaky. I was right about Keith Vaz. Nothing wrong with rent boys and drugs if that's your bag. A lot wrong with lying and hypocrisy. Bring back Tony Benn (RIP).

It's sad that the true visionary MPs are the real constituency MPs and don't make it off the back benches.

And a quick shout out to Greg Mulholland (Liberal Democrat), for whom I voted. He holds a surgery here in the library, which drives me crazy because of the noise, but I see a great many people walking out happier and more reassured than then they walked in.

Clodfobble 09-19-2016 08:27 AM


Originally Posted by Sundae
He holds a surgery here in the library, which drives me crazy because of the noise,

What is a surgery, in this context? In the US it would mean a doctor in an operating room with blood and scalpels.

Carruthers 09-19-2016 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 969278)
What is a surgery, in this context? In the US it would mean a doctor in an operating room with blood and scalpels.

In the UK a 'surgery' is where you go to consult your doctor (GP).
It's a somewhat confusing term as surgery isn't carried out there at all, with the possible exception of a small number of very minor procedures.
Members of Parliament make themselves available for constituents to consult them at various locations, and have borrowed the term, so refer to these sessions as 'Constituency Surgeries'.

Undertoad 09-19-2016 12:48 PM

One has always said "Doctor's Office" in the states, but mine has transformed itself into a "Health Center". I guess I like that? There's more than doctors there, there's a whole slew of labs and stuff my insurance won't let me use.

John Sellers 09-19-2016 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by Sundae (Post 969269)
But I do believe he is a liar.

He's a public pandering, narcissistic, racist jackass who knows nothing about politics, which is about .5% less than me.

Sundae 09-20-2016 04:34 AM

I can't add anything to what Carruthers has said re surgery. I have no idea where the connection is - perhaps originally a place of consultation?

I also cannot add anything to what Sellers has said. Except he is doing himself down in that comparison.

tw 09-20-2016 09:12 AM


Originally Posted by Sundae (Post 969344)
I can't add anything to what Carruthers has said re surgery.

Just lower your bonnet and move on. No reason to do any surgery.

John Sellers 09-20-2016 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by Sundae (Post 969344)
Except he is doing himself down in that comparison.

How? All I said was that Trumpzilla knows even less about politics than me, and I don't know much about politics myself. Letting the other Dwellars know my lack of an abundance of political knowledge is my choice.

tw 09-21-2016 10:02 AM

The Economist now (17 Sept 2016) has an expression for wacko extremists that routinely lie - and are respected for lying.

The Philippines, which has one of the world's best recent records on economic growth, has elected a Trumplestilskin ... Rodrigo Duterte. There isn't a fixed lump of "instability" to be distributed around the globe. At the moment political turmoil is on the rise across most of the world.

Mr Trump's shtick should not be working. In part, that is because he has repeatedly made appeals to bigotry since entering the race more than a year ago. It is dismaying to see so many Americans either nod in agreement or pretend not to hear what he is actually saying. To be still more blunt, to anyone with their critical faculties undimmed by partisan rage or calculation, he is obviously a con-man. He is a self-styled billionaire who will not reveal his tax returns and claims credit for acts of charity that others funded. He is a portly 70 year old who likes to insinuate that Mrs Clinton is in desperate health while declining to reveal his own medical records. Then there are his promises to restore American greatness if elected president ... In a country long used to fibbing candidates and policy platforms constructed out of flim-flam and magic money, Mr Trump breaks new ground. ... Just start with the businessman's most famous promise, that he can make Mexico pay for a 2,000 mile border wall which will stop both illegal migration and drug smuggling: a nonsensical claim that reliably provokes roars of delight at Trump rallies
Trumplestilskin defines the intelligence level of Trump supporters. These same people also voted for George Jr. But a con-man Trump has out done those lies and "breaks new ground". These same type people became brown shirts in the 1930s.

classicman 09-21-2016 07:23 PM

"Power through"

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