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Flint 07-20-2009 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 582692)
Now I've just got to figure out what to do with a 3/4ths full economy-size jar of calcium gummy bears.

You could give 'em to a visiting family of dwellars? Don't let the kid see, though, since she's already asking for her "bear" back.

Clodfobble 07-20-2009 03:32 PM

:lol: I didn't even think about that. She's not regaining her speech, she's just jonesin'.

You can have my whole stash of gummy bears and a lot of other random half-used vitamins when you come to Austin.

Undertoad 07-20-2009 03:53 PM

Correlation does not imply causation

Clodfobble 07-20-2009 04:15 PM

You're right, it doesn't. But even the most rigorous of scientific testing can only prove very strong correlation, never causation. I could give her the gummies back in a few weeks and see if she regresses, but I'd only be doing it to prove a point to you and risking my kid's brain isn't worth that.

I know you think I've gone off the deep end, but I'm not demonizing the items themselves--if I believed these things affected all children across the board, I wouldn't be offering them to Flint's kids, now would I? Incidentally, Minifob's allergy blood tests will be back in soon. I'll let you know if they confirm my personal finding that he has a correlated behavioral reaction to coconut, peaches, oranges, cashews, peanuts, egg, and tomatoes. (And just for the record, I'm predicting Minifobette's blood tests, when she gets them in a few months, will show a reaction to pears, peaches, oranges, cherries, mango, kiwi, and pineapple.) We'll verify my observational testing methods together.

Ibby 07-20-2009 06:03 PM

You know, I've always had mild ADHD symptoms, and my mom is convinced i've got super-mild aspergers (i've got an uncle who is majorly aspergers among other things), and i've always been a majorly picky eater... i oughtta do some research into all this diet-affecting-brain some myself.

Clodfobble 07-20-2009 06:16 PM

Ibram, you should read Children With Starving Brains.

Clodfobble 07-20-2009 06:27 PM

Quote:

(And just for the record, I'm predicting Minifobette's blood tests, when she gets them in a few months, will show a reaction to pears, peaches, oranges, cherries, mango, kiwi, and pineapple.)
Forgot one after the edit time window: annatto.

jinx 07-20-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 582715)

So, do you think she's doing something wrong based on incorrect assumptions? What would you be doing Tony? Based on what information?

Clodfobble 07-20-2009 06:31 PM

In fairness, it's entirely possible it's a different ingredient in the gummy bears that she has a problem with. But I have absolutely no doubt at this point that the gummies were no good for her.

Flint 07-20-2009 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 582715)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx (Post 582740)
So, do you think she's doing something wrong based on incorrect assumptions? What would you be doing Tony? Based on what information?

Haven't you heard? The best thing to do is take no actions, at all, ever. Especially when based on careful, rigorous observation.

monster 07-20-2009 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 582692)
Now I've just got to figure out what to do with a 3/4ths full economy-size jar of calcium gummy bears.


I bet they'd be great for bath tub art. Dump them in the water, let them warm up and dissolve just a little, then press on the the tub sides and backsplash in interesting patterns.

Undertoad 07-20-2009 10:30 PM

I'm saying she doesn't know whether the gummi bears had an effect. She may have no other alternative than to discontinue things after which an effect is shown. But she has done what I thought appropriate; she fairly backed off of
Quote:

Even when you know it's real, it's so hard to believe it sometimes.
"Correlation doesn't prove causation" means you don't know it's real and you mustn't believe it.

Flint 07-20-2009 10:37 PM

I guess sometimes it comes down to whether you've got "something to prove" or you're just trying to live your life and do good things.

DanaC 07-21-2009 05:12 AM

I noticed a correlation between the times I ran out of tinned tripe and so fed Pilau just on dry kibble, and the times he did and didn't have the shits.

I generally don't feed him with tinned tripe now. He's much better. Correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation, but nor does it necessarily discount the same.

Clodfobble 07-21-2009 09:07 AM

My daughter said two more new words this morning, UT. One of which was to tell me that she had "pooped," which is even more developmentally significant than just naming nouns. Remember that before I took her off the gummies, she had not spoken a single word in three months.

This means that on a standardized developmental speech scale, she has gone from a 9-month-old to a 15-month-old in the last two days. What do you think, can I safely say the gummies were having an effect now?

Ibby 07-21-2009 09:50 AM

If you (and others) didn't have such strong evidence, and if you had never told me, I would never in a million years have guessed that food could have such a profound impact on mental health. I really might start listening when people tell me I should eat right (/eat something healtier than grease, starch, and cheese)

Undertoad 07-21-2009 10:32 AM

No. Correlation does not imply causation. It's a data point, not proof in any sense.

Understanding this principle is one of the historical keys to modern science btw. Understand that I'm not saying the gummis don't have an effect. I'm saying the effect is not proven.

You have correlated a change in behavior with a rather small change you made a few days ago. Less than a quarter teaspoon of artificial sweetener. What of the changes you made two weeks ago? Last month? Not all changes will show immediately; if dietary changes are of fat-soluble substances, they will stick around in the body for quite some time. (Sucralose is considered not fat-soluble, so that is a point in favor of causality.)

Are all behavioral changes necessarily overnight? What to make of the time before the gummis arrived?

The human body is a pretty complex thing. Michael Pollan points out that thyme, if taken in large quantities by itself, promotes cancer; but in small quantities WITH other foods, helps prevent cancer, because it contains large amounts of different anti-oxidants. He points out that our obsession with single points of nutrition is actually unhealthy, and it's the complete diet that must be looked at. The simple "X is good for you/Y is bad for you", which our culture currently promotes, is not enough explanation. Perhaps X and Y combined is a natural and beneficial diet.

Undertoad 07-21-2009 10:37 AM

BTW, this is a relevant cookie:

If a person (a) is poorly, (b) receives treatment intended to make him better, and (c) gets better, then no power of reasoning known to medical science can convince him that it may not have been the treatment that restored his health.
-- Sir Peter Medawar, The Art of the Soluble

dar512 07-21-2009 11:08 AM

Toad, you're starting to sound like TW here. "If you don't test every widget with a multimeter you are only guessing" or some such.

It is a valid scientific method to change one input variable and see what happens to the output. That's what Clod's doing with her kids diet.

Undertoad 07-21-2009 11:24 AM

Causality only seems like a minor point dar. It's the whole point. If anyone can find one trained scientist that agrees with Clod that she has demonstrated proof, bring them.

Meanwhile I agree with Clod that she should avoid the gummis, and that she can't reintroduce them in an attempt to prove causality.

xoxoxoBruce 07-21-2009 11:26 AM

After having a mild heart attack, my Dad started drinking his coffee black. He would swear omitting cream & sugar from his coffee caused him to lose weight, completely disregarding other changes to his diet and lifestyle.

But, in Clod's case she has been closely monitoring every god damn molecule that her kids ingest, for a long time. She's also been monitoring output and behavior.

So unlike my Dad, and unlike UT's examples, Clod has valid results of what works for her kids. And that's what this is about, not medical research, just what works for her kids. Go Mom. :thumb2:

Pie 07-21-2009 12:20 PM

Tony is right about correlation != causation, etc. etc. etc.
But Clod knows her baby. And if she has to eliminate 5 things that might be causing a problem to get one real problem -- maybe that's worth it? To get her baby talking again?

dar512 07-21-2009 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 582873)
If anyone can find one trained scientist that agrees with Clod that she has demonstrated proof, bring them.

See, this is where you're getting TW-like. AFAIK, Clod is not intending to submit any papers to the NEJoM. She doesn't need to be 100% sure that the vitamins are bad for her kids. If she's pretty sure, she's going to yank it.

If you've got a dozen lab rats (workers), you can provide proof. When you're one mom, you're just looking for improvement. Clod's making pretty much everything her kids eat from scratch. Do you really think it would be a good use of her time to do double-blind tests on her kids vitamins?

And now I've just made myself start missing LabRat.

jinx 07-21-2009 12:30 PM

There's just no benefit to suggesting that she should be constantly second guessing herself. It's non-constructive criticism, really. Of course she could be wrong... and it seems like she'd pick up on that not too far down the road, even without a double-blind study and some peer review...

Queen of the Ryche 07-21-2009 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512 (Post 582901)
See, this is where you're getting TW-like. AFAIK, Clod is not intending to submit any papers to the NEJoM. She doesn't need to be 100% sure that the vitamins are bad for her kids. If she's pretty sure, she's going to yank it.

If you've got a dozen lab rats (workers), you can provide proof. When you're one mom, you're just looking for improvement. Clod's making pretty much everything her kids eat from scratch. Do you really think it would be a good use of her time to do double-blind tests on her kids vitamins?

And now I've just made myself start missing LabRat.


THIS. She spends every waking moment of her day trying to get both of her kids to have ANY semblance of "normalcy" she can even begin to approach. If an expiriment appears to work for her, so be it.

E-mail sent to Pelosi Clod.

You are an amazing woman, and I for one am very proud of the strength you continue to maintain, and the strides you continue to make. Hugs to you.

xoxoxoBruce 07-21-2009 01:01 PM

I'd like to hug her too, but Mr Clod might not understand... worse yet, he might. :blush:

Undertoad 07-21-2009 01:26 PM

I am saddened by these replies, but I'll take them at face value as my problem, and will no longer post in the thread.

xoxoxoBruce 07-21-2009 01:27 PM

Quote:

Dear Autism Advocate,

HEALTH CARE REFORM UPDATE: Things are moving VERY quickly in the House now with health care reform and we need you to be ready to act at a moment's notice and give it everything you've got!

Last night, The House Energy and Commerce Committee passed an autism amendment offered by Congressman Mike Doyle (D-PA), Chairman of the Congressional Autism Caucus and member of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, to H.R. 3200, the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - the House health care reform bill that is currently undergoing markup in the Energy and Commerce Committee. His amendment would set up national training initiatives on autism.

We anticipate that Congressman Doyle will introduce a very important amendment to the bill tomorrow that will seek to end autism insurance discrimination once and for all. When that happens, we will need you to be ready to call following our direction as fast and furiously as possible. We will need to make a loud statement that want this amendment to be attached to the bill.

Our children deserve appropriate healthcare that provides them with access to the medical treatments and therapies that can help them live more productive and fulfilling lives. Keep every one of them in mind as we make our way through this next stage in the process. They are counting on you!

Stay Tuned!

Elizabeth Emken
Vice President, Govenment Relations
Autism Speaks

xoxoxoBruce 07-21-2009 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 582920)
I am saddened by these replies, but I'll take them at face value as my problem, and will no longer post in the thread.

Oh stop pouting. You're talking about the principles and procedures of valid medical research, while Clodfobble, not having the time or resources for that, is trying to do the best she can for her kids, RFN. :p

glatt 07-21-2009 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 582920)
I am saddened by these replies, but I'll take them at face value as my problem, and will no longer post in the thread.

Just like you, I support what Clodfobble is doing as a mother for her own children and am blown away by her dedication. One of the main purposes of this thread is to show support for her and what she's doing, and I absolutely support her. I have a strong gut feeling that she is right. But I also support your point that scientifically speaking, she hasn't proven anything. I think you are a valuable contributor to this thread because you bring an impartiality to it. It needs that.

I have no idea how she's been taking your posts, but I haven't had the impression that she was hurt by them. She can speak up if she was. You shouldn't bow out.

Flint 07-21-2009 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 582920)
I am saddened by these replies, but I'll take them at face value as my problem, and will no longer post in the thread.

Please don't go away, Undertoad. I never got a chance to kick you in your stupid balls.

Undertoad 07-21-2009 02:08 PM

You can kick me in a different thread.

Flint 07-21-2009 02:10 PM

I liked your cookie. mmmmmm

dar512 07-21-2009 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 582934)
You can kick me in a different thread.

I dunno, Toad. Getting kicked in the thread really hurts.

Griff 07-21-2009 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 582934)
You can kick me in a different thread.

Clod knows you support her. Don't disconnect on this.

Queen of the Ryche 07-21-2009 03:09 PM

Sorry Toad, didn't mean to make you sad. I totally agree with your point, I just feel like you're trying so hard to prove your point in a thread that I don't think is about proving a point - I think it's more about hearing how Clod's trial and error is going, and what she has learned from her experiences, and how it is making her life a teensy bit easier to cope with each day, not whether it's a valid proven scientific point.

Please don't leave.

Clodfobble 07-21-2009 04:41 PM

It's cool UT, I get what you're saying and I'm not offended. We should bump the Vaccination & Epidemic thread to keep the science debate and personal support separate.

(And then I can tell you in that thread exactly what happened on the day when my daughter was 12 months old and stopped speaking. Hint: I was in the pediatrician's office, and I consider it the biggest fuckup of my life, because while I hadn't had time to do all the research I've done by now, I had done enough that I should have known better.

On second thought, I actually should stay out of that thread, because I'll admit right now that nothing anyone can say from this point on will ever convince me I'm wrong about vaccines, because I watched it fucking happen right in front of me. I am the very definition of a closed mind on the subject.)

jinx 07-21-2009 05:54 PM

I'm sorry too T, I didn't mean to make you sad either. This whole subject tends to make me extra bitchy I guess... pisses me right off actually. Nothing personal.

Quote:

I consider it the biggest fuckup of my life
:hugs Clod:
You're doing the best you can do, and a damn good job of it. Don't carry that guilt around.

Clodfobble 07-21-2009 07:47 PM

Well, too late for that. :) But I figure I can redeem myself by making them better, and spreading the word to help other kids while I'm at it.

Skunks 07-21-2009 10:53 PM

Hah, little late on this one. Sorry:

Gummis were just one data point. But wasn't it one data point in a series of others? The other foods/consumables that, when discontinued, marked an improvement, or vice versa. Stopping them wasn't just a dramatic shift; it was a dramatic shift which mimicked the other dramatic, food-related behavior shifts.

I guess the point is that IMO one's children should not be by default a clinical trial; every meal is a trial enough, from the sounds of it. Prior to the full-on hard-proof scientific method is a period of observation and field work, after which a hypothesis can be formed and specific studies can be done.

On the other hand, part of the understanding Clod is working on seems to be that the triggers are very distinct from person to person, even two siblings from the same parents. By nature sample sizes will, at this stage, be small, and the changes overlapping.

Griff 07-22-2009 12:54 PM

How about Kefir?
 
Goat Milk?
Most experts claim that the best kefir is made from raw goat’s milk, but cow’s milk also works, even if it has been pasteurized. If fact, people have made kefir from soy milk, coconut milk, and even fruit juices. But kefir grains differ in the combinations and proportions of bacteria and yeasts they contain, so not every grain is compatible with every food.


It sounds like the starter for kefir is pretty vigorous and should be free of nasty grains etc. I'm going to put Pete on this when we get milking again next summer.

Flint 07-22-2009 01:55 PM

You can get kefir at Whole Foods.

glatt 07-22-2009 01:59 PM

Reminds me, I was just reading about some woman who is working hard to get camel milk introduced to the USA. Apparently there would be decent market for it in the immigrant communities. And it's supposed to be extremely healthy so it might catch on elsewhere. She just has to go through a bunch of government red tape first.

Griff 07-22-2009 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint (Post 583153)
You can get kefir at Whole Foods.

We get it at Wegman's, unless you mean the starter?

Flint 07-22-2009 02:19 PM

I mean, kefir that is packaged and flavored specifically for kids.

BigV 07-22-2009 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 583155)
Reminds me, I was just reading about some woman who is working hard to get camel milk introduced to the USA. Apparently there would be decent market for it in the immigrant communities. And it's supposed to be extremely healthy so it might catch on elsewhere. She just has to go through a bunch of government red tape first.

from the WSJ
Quote:

RALEIGH, N.C. -- Millie Hinkle first tasted camel milk in the United Arab Emirates about 10 years ago. She had no idea the salty drink, still warm from the camel and served in an ornate bowl with a side of walnuts, would become an obsession.

"It has taken over my life," said the 57-year-old practitioner of natural medicine as she cruised down a tree-lined road here in her white SUV emblazoned with a camel.

In some countries, camel milk is called "liquid gold" for its healing and nutritional qualities. But camel dairy is not widely available in the U.S., in part because the animals don't like to be milked. Lauren Etter reports from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Ms. Hinkle has drained her savings, slashed the number of hours she spends at her day job and started a company called Camel Milk USA. Her goal is to bring the milk, reputed to have healing and aphrodisiac powers, to the U.S. where it's been hard to get mainly because camels weren't listed in rules governing the sale of milk.
Still warm from the camel? *ack* I think I'd have to warm up to that a bit myself.

Clodfobble 07-24-2009 11:20 AM

Wiki definition of apraxia, a common symptom associated with autism.

Quote:

1. SCIENTIST FIRST TO CHARACTERIZE NOVEL SYNDROME OF ALLERGY, APRAXIA, MALABSORPTION

Newswise — A landmark study conducted by Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland is the first to reveal a new syndrome in children that presents with a combination of allergy, apraxia and malabsorption. Autism spectrum disorders were variably present. Verbal apraxia has until now been understood to be a neurologically based speech disorder, although hints of other neurological soft signs have been described. The new study, led by Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland scientist and pediatric emergency medicine physician, Claudia Morris, MD, and Marilyn C. Agin, MD, a neurodevelopmental pediatrician at Saint Vincent Medical Center in New York, however, suggests that the symptoms of verbal apraxia are, at least for a sub-group of children, part of a larger, multifactorial, neurologic syndrome involving food allergies/gluten- sensitivity and nutritional malabsorption.

"While it is critical to treat verbal apraxia symptoms that often include severe delays in expressive speech production with speech therapy, we need to start asking why these kids are having these problems in the first place so that we can identify mechanisms we can actually target to treat the cause of the symptoms," says Dr. Morris.

Published in the July/August issue of Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine, the new study takes a major step toward identifying the potential mechanisms that may contribute to apraxia symptoms. In the study, Dr. Morris collected information from nearly 200 families with children who suffered from verbal apraxia in order to better characterize the symptoms and metabolic anomalies of a subset of children. The data clearly demonstrated a common cluster of allergy, apraxia and malabsorption, along with low muscle tone, poor coordination and sensory integration abnormalities. In addition, Dr. Morris was able to gather laboratory analyses in 26 of the children, which revealed low carnitine levels, abnormal celiac panels, gluten sensitivity, and vitamin D deficiency among others.

All children genetically screened carried an HLA gene associated with gluten sensitivity and celiac disease. "The sample size is still small and should be interpreted with caution," says Dr. Morris. "However this is of particular interest given the recent publication by Eaton and colleagues in the July 6 online edition of Pediatrics demonstrating a greater than 3-fold risk of autism in children born to mothers diagnosed with celiac disease. This brings some credibility to the anecdotal reports of gastrointestinal and behavioral improvements in children with autism spectrum disorders and/or verbal apraxia when eliminating gluten from their diets. Although the implications of these observations remain to be determined, this association and the utility of dietary modifications warrant further investigation, particularly if we can identify a genetically vulnerable group".

Most significantly, the data indicate that the neurologic dysfunction represented in the syndrome overlaps the symptoms of vitamin E deficiency. While low vitamin E bioavailability may occur due to a variety of different causes, neurological consequences are similar, regardless of the initiating trigger. The study suggests that vitamin E could be used as a safe nutritional intervention that may benefit some children. Growing evidence support the benefits of omega 3 fatty acid supplementation in a number of neurodevelopmental disorders. Anecdotally children with verbal apraxia will often demonstrate leaps in their speech production when taking high-quality fish oil. The addition of vitamin E to omega 3 fatty acid supplementation in this cohort of children induced benefits that exceeded those expected from just speech therapy alone, according to parental report.

"While data from a case series is by no means conclusive, the results clearly point to the need for further attention to this poorly understood disorder, and a placebo-controlled study to investigate the potential role of vitamin E and omega 3 supplementation in this group of children," says Dr. Morris.

She points out that it is equally important for children given an apraxia diagnosis to receive a more comprehensive metabolic evaluation than what is current practice. Many of the nutritional deficiencies like low carnitine, zinc and vitamin D are easily treated. By not addressing the nutritional deficiencies, the child will continue to suffer from significant medical consequences of those deficiencies. The first step is to identify and treat the deficiencies. The next step is to try to figure out why they have these deficiencies and a fat malabsorption syndrome in the first place. However, Dr. Morris does advise families to work closely with a physician rather than trying promising but unproven interventions on their own.

In the mean time, however, Dr. Morris's study provides the essential foundation for identifying the children who may need these treatments.

"By identifying these early red flags of the syndrome, we've provided a way to get these kids treatment at the earliest possible moment. While 75 percent of the time kids identified as late bloomers really are just that, 25 percent of the time there is a true pathologic condition. To miss it is to miss critically valuable time for early intervention. If a child has all these symptoms, chances are they are going to fall into the 25 percent who have a condition that needs further evaluation and treatment."

ABOUT CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL & RESEARCH CENTER OAKLAND

Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland is Northern California's only freestanding and independent children's hospital. Children's is the leader in many pediatric specialties including neonatology, cardiology, neurosurgery and intensive care. The hospital is a designated Level 1 pediatric trauma center and has the largest pediatric critical care facility in the region. Children's Hospital has 190 licensed beds, 201 hospital-based physicians in 30 specialties, more than 2,611 employees and an operating budget of $312 million. Children's research arm, Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute, is internationally renowned in bridging state of the art basic science and clinical research for the treatment and prevention of human disease. With about 300 staff members and an annual budget of approximately $50 million, CHORI is ranked among the top ten research institutes in National Institutes of Health funding to children's hospitals. CHORI is a leader in translational research, providing cures for diseases, developing new vaccines for infectious diseases and discovering new treatment protocols for previously fatal or debilitating conditions such as cancer, sickle cell disease and thalassemia, diabetes, asthma, HIV/AIDS, pediatric obesity, nutritional deficiencies, birth defects, hemophilia and cystic fibrosis.

Clodfobble 07-27-2009 02:27 PM

A new study against the dietary treatments puts a rather desperate spin on things:

Quote:

The frequency of GI symptoms was about 77 percent in the autism group and 72 percent among the others, not considered a statistically significant difference.

However, almost 34 percent of the autistic children, compared with nearly 18 percent of the others, had constipation.
Apparently constipation isn't a GI symptom anymore.


Quote:

Those differences could stem from what the researchers called neurobehavioral issues connected with autism, such as the ritualistic practices, they said.

"Many patients with autism insist on eating the same thing and might not consume enough fiber," said the study's lead author, Dr. Samar H. Ibrahim, a fellow in gastroenterology and instructor in pediatrics at the Mayo Clinic. "We think this may be contributing to the constipation."
So, wait, they are hardcore self-selecting themselves to specific foods (you know, wheat and dairy--never in the history of autism or childrearing in general has there been a kid who self-selects himself to broccoli) and this is leading to constipation. Thus, getting them to eat different foods would relieve this constipation. That sounds like... getting them to eat different food would be a good thing?

Quote:

"For me, this study lends support to the recommendation I make to a lot of families that there is no evidence to support restricted diets," she said. "They're dangerous and risky."
I'm sorry, what? It's dangerous and risky to make my child eat fruits and vegetables instead of bread and cheese? This shows how desperate people are getting--the one thing doctors have always conceded is that there is absolutely no harm in trying the diet. The only meaningful nutrient you might miss is calcium, and the reality is most normal kids don't get enough calcium either, which is why calcium supplements come in fucking gummy bear format. I saw an NBC medical correspondent make a complete fool of herself with her insistence that this "proves it," "case closed," "there is absolutely no link, we've proven it." Real scientists know one study is just one study, and you never ever call something definitively closed. That is the purpose of science, to constantly search for more information and new ways to look at it.

How many old studies exist that prove no link between smoking and cancer, I wonder?

Flint 07-27-2009 02:38 PM

So are they now saying that the case is definitively closed on children in general eating a more healthy diet being a good idea ???

Pie 07-27-2009 02:54 PM

Quote:

The frequency of GI symptoms was about 77 percent in the autism group and 72 percent among the others, not considered a statistically significant difference.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble (Post 584428)
Apparently constipation isn't a GI symptom anymore.

Just to be the devil's advocate, it sounds like they're saying the frequency difference was not statistically significant. The fact that more of those "symptoms" were constipation (rather than diarrhea, etc.) in the autism group was significant.

Flint 07-27-2009 02:58 PM

At issue is what they intended "However," to mean.

Happy Monkey 07-27-2009 03:02 PM

It sounds to me like they are saying that a symptom of autism, strong preference for routine, specifically in food choice, is causing the constipation. I doubt they'd caution against enforcing a varied diet, as opposed to a restricted one. "Not just bread and cheese" is different from "no bread or cheese". Though I do know that it can be hard to get a child to eat something else if they know that what they want is available.

Without calling out any particular restricted diet, they can be dangerous and risky (though that's an extreme case), meaning you have to be very careful when using them, not that you should never use them. Without evidence supporting a link between diet and autism, and with the possible danger of a poorly crafted restricted diet, they reccommend against.

Edit: I do wonder whether the 77-72 GI number includes the 34-18 constipation number.

Clodfobble 07-27-2009 03:13 PM

From HM's link:

Quote:

A vegan couple were sentenced Wednesday to life in prison for the death of their malnourished 6-week-old baby boy, who was fed a diet largely consisting of soy milk and apple juice.

“No matter how many times they want to say, ‘We’re vegans, we’re vegetarians,’ that’s not the issue in this case,” said prosecutor Chuck Boring. “The child died because he was not fed. Period.”
He was six weeks old, and they were (apparently) giving him soy milk instead of soy formula, which are entirely different substances, yet both are vegan. I know from experience that it says right on the box of soy milk--and every other milk substitute on the market--that it is not intended for use as a baby formula. It was not the vegan diet that killed him, it was his retarded parents.

"Without calling out any particular restricted diet" is disingenuous because there are only three major diets that are recommended for autistic children: gluten-free/casein-free, Specific Carbohydrate (whose chief difference from GFCF is it allows non-cow milks,) and Feingold (which removes nothing but artificial additives, colors, flavors, and preservatives.) Your average experimental parent is not fashioning some diet out of their ass, they are following one of these three.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
It sounds to me like they are saying that a symptom of autism, strong preference for routine, specifically in food choice, is causing the constipation.

Routine food choices do not by themselves equal constipation. My son still eats about ten foods or so pretty much every day, but his digestion is no longer a problem. The majority of people on this planet rely on staple foods that they eat at every meal. It is what one routinely eats that causes (or does not cause) constipation.

Clodfobble 07-27-2009 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey
Edit: I do wonder whether the 77-72 GI number includes the 34-18 constipation number.

I also wonder how they classified the strength of the symptoms. My stepson has constipation at least once a month. That is not the same as a child who has chronic, daily constipation with visual bloating and distension of the stomach.

Clodfobble 07-27-2009 08:28 PM

And another one has just come out in the UK. Once again, the authors conclude there is "no link" despite their own data showing that

Quote:

There were some children who began to have more stools per day at 30 months of age, but that "may be a secondary phenomenon related to differences in diet," the authors note.

Nevertheless, Emond noted that some older children with autistic spectrum disorders do have bowel symptoms. "It is not clear whether these symptoms are due to dietary changes or abnormalities in intestinal function associated with autism. Further research is needed."
Oh, but the professor who ran this study? He's a British vaccine official.

This actually gives me great hope. If they are running at such a fever pitch to prove what they already assume to be true, and this is the best they can come up with... it is a tacit acknowledgement that they are losing the battle.


It's by no means certain, but there are two representatives in Congress (Rep. Chris Smith R-NJ, and Rep. Carolyn Maloney D-NY,) who are pushing extremely hard for a special hearing on the autism epidemic in front of the Energy and Commerce committee before the new health care bill can be passed. This could come to a head even sooner than I'd expected.

Clodfobble 07-27-2009 09:32 PM

Oh, and thanks a ton to you guys who helped contact Nancy Pelosi a few days ago:

Quote:

Dear Autism Advocate,

Thank you so much for all of your hard work over the last few weeks as you have continued to call, email, and fax Speaker Pelosi’s office.

THIS JUST IN!...House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has heard you loud and clear! We are now in a very constructive dialogue with the Speaker's office about the importance of ending autism insurance discrimination.

Thank you again for your patience, your perseverance and for recruiting your friends and family to make these calls.

xoxoxoBruce 07-28-2009 12:16 AM

Beat me to it. :haha:

Griff 07-28-2009 05:21 AM

Me too! Apparently my email went through despite the system issues.

OnyxCougar 08-02-2009 08:58 PM

Clod, I've been reading this thread and following the food blog, and I have a question:

Can one be on a GFCF diet AND go low carb?

I'm noticing rice, beans etc in the diet, and I can't eat those, because I'm insulin resistance diabetic. (And if I'm going to go GFCF for the autistic cub, EVERYONE is.) I just don't know how I can go low (under 150g a day) carb with this stuff.

Clodfobble 08-02-2009 10:55 PM

I wouldn't think it would be too hard, most carbs are already eliminated on the diet in the first place. Is corn okay for you? Rice and corn are the main grain substitutes in pre-packaged items, but when you're cooking things yourself there are a ton of flour options--garbanzo/chickpea, amaranth, quinoa, teff, tapioca... I don't know if any of those are low-carb or not. But really, there's nothing that you have to eat on the diet, only things that you have to avoid. Meat, fruits and veggies are really what it's all about. If you're following a super low-carb diet, you're probably already eating most of the right stuff already, you'd just have to eliminate dairy.


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