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Old 11-19-2006, 12:51 AM   #1
WabUfvot5
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Muslims in Sweden

Been meaning to post this for a while to see reaction but xoxoxoBruce's thread gave me the needed kick in the ass.

I first saw this video almost two years ago. Given the source I was very skeptical. So I asked a Swede who went to college with me (he'd not spent much time in Sweden for a few years) about it. He hadn't heard a thing about it. So natually I thought it was just FOX trying to hype up its viewers. Not that FOX has ever distorted anything before. Fair and balanced of course

Then a couple weeks ago I came upon this article: Muslims rule major Swedish City¹. So I asked another Swede, this time one who lives near Malmö. He said there was a lot of truth to it. Not all the immigrants were to blame of course but there were more problems because of them. He even admitted there are areas you just don't go unless you want to be beaten.

Of course any calls for restraint or integration are met with accusations of racism or Nazi sympathy. So the people are largely "Bushed" into accepting it. Despite those tactics the "racist" party to finish up 3rd in the most recent voting. My friend said that was pretty unheard of.

After some more googling I came across this article: Race in Scandinavia. It's pretty comprehensive and should probably be mandatory reading for anybody trying to understand what's going on over there.

I probably shouldn't need to remind any Cellarites of this either: Muslim Protests Against Cartoons Spread.

Some things to think about when thinking of burkas being banned.

¹ The English translations on the page are summaries of the article.
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Old 11-19-2006, 06:17 PM   #2
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There is obviously a problem, but I don't think the way people dress is the real problem. It's just a symbol of it.
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Old 11-19-2006, 08:19 PM   #3
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footnotes!

.
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Old 11-19-2006, 09:48 PM   #4
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Where does the problem begin and where does it end? Would having them learn the language of the country be racist? Would havng them go to the same school be racist? Disallowing arranged marriages? I don't think the way people dress is a real problem (in general) either but in this case the dress often goes along with fundamentalist religion. I suspect the Dutch are wary of burkas due to the stories coming out of Scandinavia.
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Old 11-19-2006, 10:08 PM   #5
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When you talk about culture and religion - two thoughts that go hand in hand - you're talking about a way of life.

There are many sub cultures which are in my mind fairly unsavoury such as the surfy culture, or skin heads, however, I'm not going to tell one bunch not to shave their heads or the others to get a haircut simply because I find it unpleasant. I might suggest that the surfers get a job though, or that the skinheads stop being racist.

My point is, there's the philosophy of the religion and there's the practice of the culture. Practicing the culture doesn't harm anyone ergo, the dress of that particular culture isn't the problem. The philosophy of the religion may be, and that's the issue to address, not the dress code.
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Old 11-19-2006, 10:54 PM   #6
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It's a problem when the religion tells the culture to be violent.
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:00 PM   #7
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All members of the religion are not violent and do not interpret the religion to tell them to be violent.

I have discussed this at length with a workmate who happens to be muslim, from south africa originally.

He's a very nice person and doesn't mind it when I ask him if he'd like to come to the races and get pissed with me on the weekend. In fact, he laughs and jokes in return.

His children are beautiful and well mannered and respectful but also lively and are inquisitive about all sorts of things.

I had a discussion with him last week about Ramadan and fasting and it was enlightening for me, especially since I'd asked him if he lost any weight during Rhamadan.
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:10 PM   #8
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OK, that's one. I know two so we've got three. How many billion left?
Just kidding, but the the problems in Sweden are not being caused by anyone we know.

We do know, however, there is a segment of radical muslims that are a problem in many countries. Their culture is driven by their clerics and very dangerous to children and other living things.
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:20 PM   #9
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Maybe so Bruce, but even if this is true, I still think it is a deprivation of human rights and civil liberty to tell people they may not wear a particular type of veil.
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:31 PM   #10
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I think that all those Muslims who want to come to our countries should just SHUT UP and work and feel grateful that we are so nice to them considering the appalling violence of their religion .
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Old 11-19-2006, 11:40 PM   #11
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*speechless*
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Old 11-20-2006, 01:25 AM   #12
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So, by your logic, Buddug...

You should be kept out of just about every nation between Morrocco and India. You appallingly violent, dangerous, fundamentalist, scary, non-assimilating christians have invaded the holy land too many times to be trusted! You're responsible for such terrible, terrorist organizations as the NRA, KKK, and even the Nazi party! You disgusting, appalling Christians treat everyone who isn't christian like cockroaches!
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Old 11-20-2006, 01:34 AM   #13
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I'm not sure about Sweden but Norway has very strict immigration rules - unless you're a minority. What I'm saying is the countries don't have to let anybody in. It's like a business in a way. If a store here said no burkas allowed they could deny you access. Same thing with a country. They own the land and decide what goes. We may not agree with it but that's what elections are for.
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
We do know, however, there is a segment of radical muslims that are a problem in many countries. Their culture is driven by their clerics and very dangerous to children and other living things
True enough.....a segment. There's also a segment amongst white western cultures that are equally dangerous. Long before Moslems set off bombs on London buses, a far right group 'recruited' a young British man who was 'trained by them' to build nail bombs and then launched a vicious series of attacks on gay pubs in London.

There are dangerous, subversive and damaging elements in all societies. When the 'London Nail-Bomber' as he became known was caught, we didn't hear politicians telling us to root out the extremists.

I think it would be foolish to deny that there are some dangerous fringes amongst Moslem communities. It is equaly foolish to characterise all Moslems as dangerous. I know plenty of moslems who consider themselves as British as I am. They practically queued up in London to condemn the actions of the bombers. Note: there were moslems killed in the London attacks and the New York attacks. This is about a particular group of terrorists who are moslem, it's not about all moslems.
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Old 11-20-2006, 07:34 PM   #15
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What percentage dictates the fringe? Or what defines it? Cuz it sounds like there is a lot of fringe in Sweden.
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