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Old 12-11-2012, 07:59 AM   #226
Trilby
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yes.

he fed on darkness. I used to do that, too.

it's much nicer out here in the light.

not so mushroom-y, dank and depressing.
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic.

"Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her.
óJames Barrie


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Old 12-11-2012, 08:27 AM   #227
Aliantha
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lol you girls are so dramatic.

G'night!
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:33 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinite monkey View Post
Yeah, remember the interminable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha View Post
lol you girls are so dramatic.

G'night!


I'm up for an Oscar for that role.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:42 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet View Post
I'm interested to learn why those who now attack Ibby for her intolerance did not, to my recollection, ever attack merc for his intolerance.
That's not true, he was confronted for some things he said, others were just ignored rather than acknowledging. Attacking him for his general attitude would be like attacking Zip for his spelling, or tw for his soliloquies, it's part of his identity here.
I think I have a handle on why, where he came from, how hard he worked, and the smart choices he made, to get his comfortable lifestyle. And from eating all those dead rugby players.

Ibby is another matter, he seems to be developing a habit of telling me what I can and cannot say, or even think. Hommie don't play dat.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:58 AM   #230
Spexxvet
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That's not true, he was confronted for some things he said,
He was not attacked by the same people who now attack Ibby for the same thing, except maybe you.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:06 AM   #231
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No, spirited arguments but I don't attack anyone, except rkzenrage.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:07 AM   #232
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I didn't see Merc get a free pass. I saw him get embroiled in arguments that ended up with lots of people telling him off. I know I had a go at him many times over stuff he said. In particular stuff he said to Ibs.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:32 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
<snip>
Ibby is another matter, he seems to be developing a habit of telling me
what I can and cannot say, or even think. Hommie don't play dat.
Sure, xoB, what we say/post is up to each of us.
But that is what creates our own personal reputations.
It also has to do with respect for another Dwellar.

If Ibram asks to be called Ibby, is that so different than Brianna
asking to be called Trilby, and for us to use pronouns in sync with their names ?
If it is so difficult make such changes in our vocabularies ?

If that is so hard, should we assume there's more going on than just resistance to PC ?

With regards to what I "think", it seems to me that is exactly what Ibby is trying to change.
First, I don't assume that it's Ibby that needs to be changed by me.
Only with changes in my thinking will the changes follow in my own social behaviors, regardless of the current version of PC.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:58 PM   #234
Trilby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliantha View Post
lol you girls are so dramatic.

G'night!
It's not drama, it's imagination.
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In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic.

"Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her.
óJames Barrie


Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:40 PM   #235
Aliantha
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:17 PM   #236
footfootfoot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
BigV's words ring true to me. Maybe its middle child syndrome, but I see Ibby organizing a life filled with intentional conflict and otherizing based on the words of professional thinkers who are quite out of touch with the thoughts and language of those they seek to change.. gotta run
I guess you are glad lil Pete didn't go to Bennington then?
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:53 PM   #237
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If she chose Bennington, I'd have supported her in that. Every kid needs to find a place that serves her needs not her parent's. It didn't meet her academic needs. She's pretty conservative in her lifestyle choices, despite being very liberal politically. Her perception that the drug culture was pretty serious also turned her off.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:03 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
V, I've read through your post a few times, each time hoping to eventually reach your conclusion.
Either I still don't get your meaning, or I come to a totally different conclusion.

For my part, I feel Ibby has been extremely self-giving and open to everyone here
about the road she travels, the standards she holds, and she still remains open for discussion.
She has posted more than just her opinions, she has tried to educate.
So, I feel more connected, and think I know more about Ibby as a person, than I do about many other Dwellars.

From the posted attacks most recently, and in the past, I feel Ibby has done remarkable well.
Her posts have remained civil, and her use of "oppressor" has proved well founded.
She has stayed with us in the face of some highly insulting diatribes.
I doubt I could/would want to stay long in the face of such abusive behavior.

It makes me wonder if a few Dwellars have a perception that Ibby somehow is a hidden threat,
or is it a holdover from some earlier Drill Instructor type mocking their own sexuality,
or is it only a belief in some sort of superiority that allows them to impose their will on another.

I'm left with a question that I haven't yet answered.
What gives justification to "hammer" in the first place ?
Lamplighter--

first of all, the "hammering" is just a figure of speech, taken from the proverb I quoted, and taken from the tone of many of the posts addressed directly to Ibby. there's been plenty of hammering.

As for the justification to "hammer", I offer these reasons.

First of all, I'm entitled to express myself just as you are and she is. And we do all express ourselves around here. When that expression takes the tone of repeated, argumentative telling how to think and act, "hammering" is an apt description.

Next, speaking for myself, I felt some of the things Ibby said were wrong, and I wished to correct those things. For example, being intolerant of intolerance, but refusing to accept the idea such a position perpetuates the very thing she says she's trying to stamp out. Also, characterizing others, mercy in this case, as a one dimensional caricature, "an asshole" based on a subset of his words, while at the same time having a well established reputation for rejecting others' judgements of herself, claiming such labels were unfair characterizations. Another thing, rejecting the idea that allies are helpful, wtf? Making bigoted statements about the bigotry of others. Stuff like this.

So. It's hammering to the extent that our respective positions are in strong opposition to each other and it's justified because I care enough about Ibby and the subjects at hand to speak up.

As for the actual point I was trying to make, I don't think Ibby's interested in learning from me and others on these kinds of points. She's got a ton of input, and she's assessing it, and she's finding my input wanting by comparison. I can not shape her iron until she's ready.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:34 PM   #239
xoxoxoBruce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
Sure, xoB, what we say/post is up to each of us.
But that is what creates our own personal reputations.
It also has to do with respect for another Dwellar.

If Ibram asks to be called Ibby, is that so different than Brianna
asking to be called Trilby, and for us to use pronouns in sync with their names ?
If it is so difficult make such changes in our vocabularies ?

If that is so hard, should we assume there's more going on than just resistance to PC ?
What the fuck are you talking about, I don't give a shit if somebody changes their user name.
Quote:
With regards to what I "think", it seems to me that is exactly what Ibby is trying to change.
Now that's the rub. When he first started this feminization of Ibram, in here, he was throwing out all these categories and rules that everyone must follow or they being aggressive/oppressive of these groups.

First of all I'm not convinced there are that many subdivisions. Shit, everyone is a little different from everyone else, but everybody doesn't get to whine if people don't follow their personal set of rules. At least not and be taken seriously.

Second, I only know a couple people that fall anywhere in the spectrum, that I know of. The ones I do know is because they told me, and none asked for special treatment. We get along just fine without following any of Ibby's guide to acceptable behavior.
Quote:
First, I don't assume that it's Ibby that needs to be changed by me.
Only with changes in my thinking will the changes follow in my own social behaviors, regardless of the current version of PC.
I don't want to change him, and he doesn't get demand changes of me.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:50 PM   #240
sexobon
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TheMercenary might come back if a certain someone nominates him to be a moderator.
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