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Old 08-10-2015, 04:03 PM   #46
Undertoad
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In fact, it has started to create some ambivalence on nuclear power, which the pre-global-warming "team orange" would have been almost unanimously against.
I love that. All in favor. It's probably the long-run solution.

If we're ready to exchange the global problem for local ones, fracking is the best way to do it. A crap ton of carbon neutral energy, available right now.

A lot of Team Orange is SUPER angry over fracking. What do you make of that?

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But if a 18 year trend is an elephant, a hundred year trend is a whale.
Or a 12000 year trend when grifftopia was glacial and today it's hot. Or 5000 years ago when the Sahara desert was "a verdant landscape, with sprawling vegetation and numerous lakes".
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Old 08-10-2015, 04:47 PM   #47
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Fracking is not carbon-neutral. Environmentally, the best that can be said for it is that it's better than coal.

ETA: Maybe not the best that can be said. There are probably other dirty processes that it is also better than.
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:16 PM   #48
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Right, I mis-stated that.

Point remains: we could cut 40% of carbon output very quickly without disrupting the economic engine that prevents poverty and encourages innovations that will actually allow us to get to the next level. Why is Team Orange actually angry? Why are Team Orange's actual policies prohibiting fracking today? Isn't this one up for debate? Every bit of natural gas we get is stopping coal and oil from being burned. The science is settled here:



from here
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Old 08-10-2015, 06:15 PM   #49
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More than mis-stated, it was a turrible error

Also I had previously said that half the CO2 we've generated has been since the pause began; this was also wrong; I think it may be about a third? Discredit the entire statement. Nevertheless we are continuing to crank it out in higher and higher amounts, and the Mauna Loa observatory saw CO2 rise at what looks like an even slightly faster rate in the last 20 years.

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Old 08-10-2015, 06:18 PM   #50
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And when I say "we" I mean some of us.

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Old 08-10-2015, 09:50 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
A lot of Team Orange is SUPER angry over fracking. What do you make of that?
Our most precious natural resources is potable water, which is getting harder to come by because sources near the surface are becoming polluted and the deep aquifers being drained at an alarming rate.
In the urban/suburban areas with public water supplies, spending a shitload of money can supply cleaned up water or on the coasts desalinated.
But in most of the country wells are the only answer, and supplying public water is out of the question.
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Old 08-13-2015, 09:04 AM   #52
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Never forget why the coal industry has a poor future. The industry routinely stifled innovation. They even opposed R&D for IGCC.

Innovation that is not pioneered ten and twenty years ago cannot exist today. But according to the coal industry, spending money back then on R&D only increased costs. They created their own problems.
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Old 08-14-2015, 02:32 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
In a similar 1-on observation, our unusually warm weather in the PDX area seems
to have advanced the maple trees all the way from early August into October's autumn.

Maples leaves are yellowing on the trees, and we're seeing showers of leaves in mild breezes.
Likewise for some of the willows and locusts.

But then, maybe it's just a matter of drought rather than temp.
Yup - been somewhat dry here also. I think its a 2fer.... I'll have a lot more first hand data in a month or two. If things are like last year or worse, I'll have zero left in a few months.
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:05 PM   #54
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We are just now beginning to see the leaves change colors. The mushroom season has been weak at best.
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:06 PM   #55
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As for the Questions ...

The "scientific questions" are:
Is climate warming real (regardless of cause(s)) ? Maybe, I think so.
If it is, what are the consequences ? Potentially the end of life as we know it.
If these are serious, can we (mankind) do anything about it ? most likely no.
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:09 PM   #56
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One final question.

Should we try to fix it?
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Old 10-08-2015, 02:02 PM   #57
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Depends.
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Old 10-08-2015, 02:05 PM   #58
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He wasn't asking about your underwear.

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Old 10-09-2015, 09:27 AM   #59
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:16 AM   #60
it
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Should we try to fix it?
More like hedging our bets on the cross section between fixing and and surviving it:

Renewable energies could be a huge push towards the ability of a lot of countries to go on functioning even if the actual climate - or possibly the resulting political climate - doesn't allow a continues exchange of oil, coal and gas. More and more countries, cities and even households being able to function independently if the grid or economy breaks down is going to be crucial.
Electric vehicles are also a potentially important move towards that, though different places might need to adapt the types of batteries we produce.
There are several programs working on the use of drones to send medical supplies and goods to far away regions in Africa - these could also be a huge bonus in the west in times of needs.
3D printing and robotics can make huge step towards more localized industrial independence as well as reduce energy consumption on global trade, and likewise for vertical farming and agriculture.
Perhaps most important of all, uploading and copying to multiple servers more and more of the body of humanity's accumulated knowledge and intellectual work, on this thing called "the internet". All of the rest are tools that can allow civilization a sturdier foothold in times of crisis, but this one is the one that makes sure that whatever survives will almost certainly have a much better starting point, including not only the intellectual benefit, not only the technical knowledge, but the published research on climate change leading to the crisis in the first place, the history behind it and all the mistakes they'd hold us responsible for and hopefully strive to not repeat.

...Also while we're at it, we should make sure to prank them and give Sherlock Holmes a documented birth certificate.
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