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Old 08-09-2008, 10:43 AM   #91
Troubleshooter
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After putting a new roof on my porch I have four pieces of half inch all-thread that are about four feet long.

I highly recommend it as both a deterrent and and effective weapon.
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:08 AM   #92
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Makes interesting bloody, serried bruises and marks.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:33 AM   #93
Troubleshooter
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Makes a slightly more whispery sound while in motion too.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:45 PM   #94
Ruminator
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Let me say up front that I hate violence.
But I learned long ago the hard way that someone else may decide for you that you have to deal it.

There's been some very good advice offered here for you.

If I can add a couple considerations also:

- in fights there are things like pace, timing, distances, that all affect its outcome.
- any swinging weapon has to be pulled back before it can be swung again
- in that time you are pulling back you are off the offense and on the defense, and in the process likely creating openings that your opponent can take advantage of. I would rush in, changing the distance to my advantage while the attacker drew back his bat.
- most fights end up as very close range deals that often go the floor
- bats clubs, etc. are for a longer range and don't do well in close quarter combat
- clubs and the like were discarded for bladed weapons for some very good reasons, one example- my brother was attacked by a guy with a baseball bat who hit him very hard with it. My brother turned his back to the blow allowing the guy to initiate the fight and when my brother was driven to his knees by the blow- he reached up and pushed a knife into the guys gut.
It took months for my brother's bruise to heal, but the bat swinging attacker did his healing in a hospital, and was lucky to at that!

Someone posted about not seeing the knife until too late... very true! (like in my brother's case) Don't tip your hand by showing your weapon in advance.

Last, buy a gun legally, and take classes to learn to use it properly.
Buy a revolver, not the cool semi-automatic which can jam on you and leave you with something to throw at your attacker.

So, dont take a club to a knife fight; and don't take a knife or rock(semi-auto) to a gun fight IMHO.

Your local sheriff will tell you that a shotgun is best for home defense, mine did.
In the rush and chaos of that moment, a shotgun won't be nearly as likely to miss if not well aimed. And should you totally miss(unlikely in close quarters) its far more intimidating, being able to blow someone into pieces.

Don't buy new, buy a used one in good working condition; one that you won't mind losing to the police as evidence should the undesired event ever occur.

I hope this can be of some help to you.

- Rumi
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:56 AM   #95
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Mostly good advice there, Ruminator -- welcome to the Cellar, btw!

But allow me to insert a few modifications, for instance about handguns jamming. Semiauto designs more recent than say circa 1911 are a lot better about reliability, because basically they've had nine decades of experience now in arranging semiauto actions to make jams less likely.

It is possible, though not at all easy, to jam a revolver.

With a semiauto, jamming can usually be cleared immediately, like about a second, without tools. Some designs are not prone to the stoppages others may suffer, such as the 1911-type "stovepipe jam," which you clear by swiping the stuck, vertical standing cartridge case out of the ejection port with the heel of your left hand. Jack the slide and you're ready for battle again. Most semiauto jams get cured by "tap/rack/bang" drill. If the slide didn't go into battery -- not all the way in -- bump it with the heel of your hand. If it won't go, grab the slide and rack it back, ejecting the cartridge it didn't feed, and let it run forward again to pick up the next. Unless something's very wrong, it'll feed this cartridge the way it's supposed to, and you can go bang bang again.

A bad primer isn't a jam, but is alarming in time of trouble. Cure is still the same: rack the slide to eject the offender, and chamber the next round. The work of a mere moment.

Jam a revolver, though, and you've probably got something so messed up it's going to take some time on a workbench with armorers' tools to sort things out. You'll likely have to take the gun apart to get at what's wrong, like something down in the lockwork that revolves the cylinder and actuates the hammer.

Modern semiautos like the Glock operate so simply it's like picking up a double-action revolver anyway, and Glocks and similar actions (Smith & Wesson makes one) benefit from those nine decades of experience and are designed very jam resistant from the start.

It is also easier to shoot a semiauto rapidly and accurately. Revolvers necessarily put their chamber up high, so there's a lot of leverage when you touch a round off and it cranks the piece around in your hand. This effect is marked with large magnums, unless these have a very long and heavy barrel fitted -- the difference in behavior between an 8" barrel and a 10" silhouette shooting barrel on a .44 Mag is very great. The first bucks up on you, the second backs into the web of your hand and spanks it. Semiautos keep their barrel line lower to your hand, all the workings of the system are automatically powered and run backwards and forwards, so this kind of pistol is more ergonomic to shoot. It's a better fighting tool, overall. This is why semiauto pistols proliferate as they do -- more firepower, which has been true from very early on (8 for the 1911, 13 for the Browning HP 9mm, designed between the wars; now see 1911 actions with double stack magazines of 14 rounds in .45 and cut-down versions of the same pistol with 10, and 17 rounds of 9mm in a full-size Glock, or 19 with magazine extension buttplates, a little more bang with a little more bulk), more repeat-shot accuracy -- hits win better than misses, which is what a responsible gun owner seriously needs.

Police departments have pretty much universally converted to autoloading pistols. Weapon development tends toward the conservative, and police departments are particularly so. They are not going to take up a firearm that is only iffy. They have discovered it is important to shoot better than they used to be satisfied with, and this instrument does the job.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:54 AM   #96
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I have been upgraded with a tazer. Hammer out- tazer in! My dad came for a visit and made me take it. I like it, though now I have found that when I might really need it, I am unable to legally carry it. Bummer.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:04 PM   #97
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Just tell them Griff said it was cool to carry.
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:25 PM   #98
Ruminator
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Thumbs up

Thanks for the welcome Urbane Guerrilla.

I agree with your well made points.

My thoughts also went along the line of cost and what can be bought at a lower price thats going to be most reliable. It sounded like cost may be a limiting factor for him, ...but maybe not.
I personally also like a Sig, or S&W. And I know the Glocks have earned a great reputation in the field.
But unless things have changed alot, you can probably still buy a wheel gun in better condition for the money than an autoloader?
Also, in most home defense situations(actually inside your home) firepower isn't usually going to exceed the six shot capacity of a revolver is it?
(38 Special or 357 Magnum- my choices)
Not that theres anything wrong with greater firepower!
As for a bad primer in a revolver, just pull the trigger again. And unless you buy reloaded or cheap generic ammo, your not likely going to get a jam in today's modern guns, I agree.
The 357's kickback, yup, I hear you. Its a cannon alright. Definitely not a first choice for a smaller bodied person.

For price and all the rest of the considerations, piercehawkeye45, I again suggest the merits of a basic shotgun for "in the home defense". I keep a Police model Remington 870 ready at all times. (short legal barrel length)

Also piercehawkeye45, I suggest watching the movie "Death Sentence" with Kevin Bacon.
It very much perfectly applies to our discussion here in so many ways!
Especially the aspect of our not being able to accurately "count the cost".
I know the dad does about everything possible the wrong way, but it is still a great depiction of Murphy's Law altering how we think something will go.

And like was suggested, moving as soon as possible may be your best choice.
Wow, this thread ia a real beginning of an education for those not already having any such knowledge.

Good discussion.
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:32 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruminator View Post
Especially the aspect of our not being able to accurately "count the cost".
I know the dad does about everything possible the wrong way, but it is still a great depiction of Murphy's Law altering how we think something will go.


Good discussion.

I've not seen the movie, I'll watch it soon.


In the Army we have a saying, the first casualty in any contact is the plan. Ya, just never, ever know exactly how things are gonna go when the bullets start flying.
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:16 PM   #100
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Dont assume that just because you Own a weapon you can use it , Get some Competent training !!!
Knowledge is Power !!!!!

Oh and I own a Glock , and I like it LOTS ,
but am thinking HARD about a revolver ,
SW haz some Cool looking new Wheel guns out !!

A Pump shot gun is best for home defence , even if its a 20 ga
#4 shot or larger at close range would be BAD for a Bad guy !!
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:23 AM   #101
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I keep some of each around. You never know when you'll need one or the other.

A shotgun (Rem 870 Mariner) guards my house along with dogs. I carry Glocks (.40), wheelgun snubbys (.38spl), a Makarov (rarely...9mm) or even my big gun... a Para-Ordnance P14-45 with two spare mags for when I feel the need for more serious firepower. The handguns also guard the house as they are salted around in obscure places.

Carry ammo is usually either Cor-Bon, Federal Hydra-shok, Remington Golden Saber or Speer Gold Dot.

Training is ongoing and came before I bought my first gun. I've been lazy recently and haven't shot in about two years but life intrudes. One of these days I'll get back out to a range and burn off a few hundred.

I want to bring in my wife but finding a handgun to fit her small hands, in a light caliber (so as not to aggravate her arthritis and to avoid "flinching") that can also serve in a defense situation is proving difficult.
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:48 AM   #102
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9mm or .32mag is effective and not to bad on recoil
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:59 AM   #103
Urbane Guerrilla
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For fighting the bad guys and limited mass to the pistol along with limited recoil, I'd pick 9mm too. .380 if you absolutely must.

The Glocks are famous for not pounding you when you bust a cap. There seems something absorbent about their polymer frame, and they've been building them to fit small hands too, reducing certain critically located circumferences.
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Last edited by Urbane Guerrilla; 08-15-2008 at 01:06 AM.
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:06 AM   #104
piercehawkeye45
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I did not get a knife, just brought up a baseball bat.

I moved out of that apartment when it got absolutely trashed by a roommate. My apartment was also broken into later after I moved out as well so I guess my worries were legitimate.

Looking back, I don't know what the best response would have been for a break in, probably just getting out. I know for a fact that many people in that neighborhood do pack heat so attacking with a bat or a knife wouldn't help me there. My other roommate and I both do not want a gun, we did get an opportunity to get one BTW, because neither of us are trained and we would still be a great risk from using it and even having it. In this position, it would probably have been best to throw away any pride I have in defending my home because getting hurt or killed would not be worth it IMO.

It was an experience living there and I felt I have learned and grown a lot.
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:30 PM   #105
Ruminator
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Thumbs up

Good for you Pierce. I'm glad to hear that you were able to work out being able to move from what sounds like a fairly dangerous place.

- Rumi
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