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Old 02-05-2004, 05:22 PM   #1
Riddil
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Better to lie, or to break trust?

This chain of thought grew out of a conversation that my friends were bouncing around talking about a friend of ours who just found out his girlfriend was cheating on him. (This post is written from a male perspective, assume he/she, his/her, wife/husband where appropriate).

First, I believe most people could, in the right situation, cheat on their partner. But that's part of the deal when you're loyal... you're careful to avoid those situations. Kinda like when you're on a diet you don't stock the fridge with a case of doughnuts. It's a lot easier to *not* eat a doughnut when there aren't any around.

Second, you can't judge a person by a past mistake. Just because they once stole something, or did drugs, or cheated on their partner, that doesn't make them a life-long klepto, addict, or serial-cheater. Everyone makes mistakes, so accept them for the person they are now and not by a lone mistake in their past. (But watch out for the true kleptos, addicts,and cheaters along the way).

Third, if trust is broken in a relationship it can never be fully rebuilt. And I'm not talking about small things... I'm talking about real breaking of trust. Could you ever fully trust your wife again after she spent a weekend in Cancun sleeping with your brother? Even if she was totally loving every day for the rest of her life?

So, the basic assumptions are:
- Potentially anyone in the "wrong" situation might cheat in a relationship
- A mistake in life doesn't necessarily condemn a person for eternity
- Once a trust is truly broken it can never be rebuilt

Considering those assumptions, put yourself in this hypothetical situation: if one time you "accidentally" cheat... maybe you drank too much, never intended it to go that far, blah blah blah... but you wake up in the morning regretting everything, wishing it'd never happened.

And in that moment you realize how much you love your partner, and how much it'd hurt to lose them. It's not like you wanted to cheat. If you hadn't gotten so drunk you would have pushed away their advances. Further, now that you HAVE cheated you're confident you'll never cheat again because you've learned from this unfortunate mistake.

Now consider the different courses of action. If you confess then you'll break the trust. You'll weaken the relationship, or she may leave you entirely. You could also keep quiet about your "moment of indiscretion". And if she finds clues you might even lie to cover it up.

You might even try to justify it all. You're not lying to protect yourself... you're lying to protect a strong, healthy, happy relationship! To protect *her* happiness, as much as yours!

So... the question is... considering all of the above, what would you do? Confess immediately? Don't mention it? Maybe even lie? Because if she does leave you, then what about your next girlfriend? You cheated one time, but you can still build a trusting relationship with your new girlfriend, right? So if you're "allowed" to build a new trust with someone else, doesn't that mean you're still an OK person? And if you're a good person why not protect the relationship you already have?

Also consider the flip side. What if your partner cheated on you in the above situation? Which course would you want them to follow?

As a last point of consideration, think about your past & present relationships... have you ever said something untrue? Maybe you told your girlfriend you liked her perfume, or outfit, or a meal she worked on for hours, just because the truth would hurt her feelings? Or maybe you didn't tell her about the cigars at poker night because it'd lead to a fight since you weren't supposed to be smoking? You justify lying to protect her feelings, and to keep the relationship free from strife. We've all had those moments. But where do you draw the line?

Oh, the moral dilemma!

As a side note, considering the topic of the thread I just wanted to add that I've never cheated in any of my past relationships. This all just philosophical meat for you to chew on. I've never even come close to cheating, or had a partner cheat on me. (That I know of!)
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:01 PM   #2
ladysycamore
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Oh God, I have a reallly hard time when it comes to trust. It was bad enough when I found out that I couldn't completely trust my friends at one time. I now hold them at arms length (at least the ones that I still talk to), so I guess that would give someone some insight on how I'd feel in the event of an S.O. cheating on me.

It just seems a bit "weak" to me when I hear the cheater say to their partner, "But, I didn't MEAN to do it! We were drunk, things got out of hand, etc., etc." Now the issue is can you trust that person again with alcohol? Being around others while drunk? The fact that they WERE drunk? Does that signify a deeper problem? Sounds far out, but IMO, it could be very real.

Quote:

And in that moment you realize how much you love your partner, and how much it'd hurt to lose them. It's not like you wanted to cheat. If you hadn't gotten so drunk you would have pushed away their advances. Further, now that you HAVE cheated you're confident you'll never cheat again because you've learned from this unfortunate mistake.
Halle Berry said it best in the movie, "Boomerang":

"What do you know about love? What could you possibly know about love?!? You know, I'm sick and tired of men using love as if it's some disease you just catch. Love should have brought your ass home last night!!"
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:08 PM   #3
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Unhappy

tell the truth. or it will eat away at your soal until it feels like your heart is just a rotten tomato sagging in your pathetic lying chest.

I have just been through this. I was living with my wonderful partner.. who i would have NEVER even contemplated that i ever would or could cheat on him. keeping it in just affected everything about anything. i nearly went insane with guilt.

I ended up moving out because i couldnt handle what i had done and now.. months later the rumors have spread and because i was stupid enough to think i was protecting him by not telling him, loving him so much i couldnt stand to see hurt in his face, but i now see it even more amplified, as he tells me (last night actually) that i have broken him and he never wants to see me again.

I thought i could pretend it was a bad dream. like it never happened. then i tryed to tell myself it was no big deal.. everybody does it. then i thought.. if i move out.. we will have time apart and when i return the love wil be stronger than ever.

I had never cheated before and after experiencing the hell and trauma it places upon your concience, your relationship, your work, your EVERYTHING, i never ever would again.

if i had of been honest i might have at least salvaged a friendship, forgivness, or at least understanding. now we have nothing.

even if you can hide what you have done from your partner forever, you can not hide it from yourself. Often the most painful truth that exists, is the one inside of you.
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Old 02-05-2004, 08:24 PM   #4
Sperlock
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I would tell the truth, and I would rather that my S.O. do the same. It would hurt me more to happen to find out later, some other way, that not only did she cheat, but she hid the truth from me. It would be more painful to me and make me wonder, "Has she cheated since then? Is there anything else that she has hid from me?"

While I am not denying that finding out the S.O. cheated would hurt, it would be easier to recover from it and heal the relationship than if the S.O. had also hidden the truth. To me, at least.

As an additional thought, it's also possible that hiding it may make cheating more tempting when a relationship has hit a rough spot...hey, I hid it once, I can do it again. Just once more and I will stop.
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Old 02-05-2004, 09:14 PM   #5
Brigliadore
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I have actually had something like this happen to me. Long before I met HP I was engaged to another man. One day while I was out of town I got a call from him telling me he had gotten drunk a month before and cheated on me with a friend of mine. The only reason he was telling me was because her boyfriend had found out and was going to tell me as soon as I got back. I guess he figured it was better to hear it from me then from someone else. I was so mad I was calm if that makes any sense, and actually watched the whole Miss Teen USA pageant as it was just the right amount of mind numbing stupidity I needed at the time. I stayed with him (mostly because he threatened to kill himself if I left him) but the trust was never the same. I stayed with him for a few more months but it finally ended as we just couldn't get past it. About 8 months after we broke it off I was talking to the girl he had cheated on me with (strangely I never blamed her and stayed friends with her, only not as close) and she informed me that all that time after the incident that we were still together he was telling her that if she would have him he would break it off with me in a second, and that he didn't love me and only wanted her. I have no reason to not believe her on that point.
Now when it comes to telling to other person about something like that I have to say it depends on the situation. If you did get drunk (or something else that alters you ability to say no) and you TRULY regretted what you did after and you have a stable and loving relationship with your partner, I say don't tell them (if you can stand the guilt as Sun_Sparkz pointed out). Learn from your mistake, make sure to never put yourself in that position again and try and be the best partner you can for the person you are with. I know the pain it causes to be told, and in my case I was glad he told me as I wouldn't have wanted to marry him only to find out this was a pattern and that he didn't love me (which I believe would have been the case). But if you truly love the person you are with then I say don't tell them and yes even lie to protect them.
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:05 PM   #6
Lady Sidhe
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Quote:
Originally posted by ladysycamore
Oh God, I have a reallly hard time when it comes to trust. It was bad enough when I found out that I couldn't completely trust my friends at one time. I now hold them at arms length (at least the ones that I still talk to), so I guess that would give someone some insight on how I'd feel in the event of an S.O. cheating on me. [/b]
I agree. Trust is hard to regain. Someone may promise you that s/he will never do it again, but wasn't the promise to be faithful implicit in the "we're exclusive" decision, or the marriage vows?

Don't get me wrong...I think that trust CAN be regained, but it takes a very long time, and it's not something that should be rushed. I mean, the cheating partner shouldn't just expect you to "get over it, because s/he doesn't intend to do it again"...trust has to be regained through demonstrating trustworthy behavior, consistently over a long period of time.

I've never cheated. I could never imagine doing something so hateful and hurtful to someone I purported to love. I've gotten damned drunk, but I've never been so drunk that I've "taken someone home," whether I was single or partnered. I can't imagine sleeping with someone unless you could see yourself still with them in five years, but that's just me. I was never a "play the field" kind of person to begin with. The whole idea of cheating is foreign and repellent to me. It's the ultimate slap in the face. Therefore, I wouldn't do it. I'd break up with the person first.



Quote:
Halle Berry said it best in the movie, "Boomerang":

"What do you know about love? What could you possibly know about love?!? You know, I'm sick and tired of men using love as if it's some disease you just catch. Love should have brought your ass home last night!!"

*gives ladysycamore a standing ovation for posting that quote, and files it away in her own collection*



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Old 02-06-2004, 12:12 AM   #7
wolf
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"Accidentally" (what a crock) or not, if you have cheated you have already violated the individual's trust.

Fess up and face the consequences.
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Old 02-06-2004, 01:06 AM   #8
juju
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Re: Better to lie, or to break trust?

Quote:
Originally posted by Riddil
if one time you "accidentally" cheat... maybe you drank too much, never intended it to go that far, blah blah blah... but you wake up in the morning regretting everything, wishing it'd never happened.

And in that moment you realize how much you love your partner, and how much it'd hurt to lose them. It's not like you wanted to cheat. If you hadn't gotten so drunk you would have pushed away their advances.
I think some others might be agreeing with me here -- that is bullshit. You can't accidentally cheat. If you're really committed to your partner, you just don't put yourself in a situation where you might lose control. And if you do, you should own up to it, at least in your own head, and admit that you did, in fact, do something stupid on purpose.

I think it'd be best to tell, since good relationships have honesty as their foundation. But it sure would be pretty damned hard to own up to. Much easier to lie and avoid the emotional pain.
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Old 02-06-2004, 01:02 PM   #9
Riddil
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Nono, I think you guys are being too harsh. Yeah, just being drunk isn't a good excuse at all. But still, it's possible for a situation to roll along and next thing you know you're doing something you never intended.

Anyone remember those old psychological studies from the '50s where they were trying to find out how the Nazi party in Germany could "force" so many people to do heinous acts? They tested "normal" people who went through a series of actions which ended in submitting a man to a supposedly fatal electrical shock. And because of the environment & the coercion these average people went right along with it. Sure, even during the act they didn't *want* to kill anyone and they felt it was wrong... but they still went through with it. And that's murder, I'm just talking about sleeping with someone.

You'd be surprised what you're capable of in the right environment, with the right amount of coercion. The whole process that's leading up to it you're just allowing the person/situation to dictate your actions because each one is just a tiny baby step, and individually really not that bad at all. "What's wrong with some body shots?" And next thing you know you find yourself naked in a hotel room with a bucket of vaseline, 4 midgets and a donkey.

I really believe that anyone could cheat with the right environment. But do I think that's an excuse? Fuck no. If my S.O. came to me sobbing about some "accident" where she cheated on me, I do not care what her excuse is, it's over right then and there. Get the hell out. You should have been smart/loving/loyal enough to not get your ass into that situation in the first place.

Anyhow, I used to totally agree with you guys. Until I started thinking about this argument I always said that if my S.O. ever cheated on me I'd want to know right away. But now, I think that if my S.O. ever cheated on me and it honestly was a one-time thing for her, and she NOW knows how much she completely loves me, wants to stay with me forever, and will never cheat again...

I wouldn't want her to tell me. Because even if I *did* stay with her, (slim chance) I know I'd never trust her again. And it would eat away at me until finally love is dead. So truthfully, I'd rather be in the perfect relationship and have total love and trust... instead of doubts. Ignorance is bliss.

But yeah, if I'm with a person that is a true serial-cheater I'd want to know right away. Walk away as soon as possible.
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Old 02-06-2004, 07:16 PM   #10
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Re: Re: Better to lie, or to break trust?

Quote:
Originally posted by juju
snip--I think it'd be best to tell, since good relationships have honesty as their foundation.--snip
Is it honesty or is it faith that make the foundation? Maybe it's faith in their honesty.

Personally, I wish she'd never told me. It was never the same after that. Love, yes. Life, yes. Trust, no.
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Old 02-06-2004, 07:45 PM   #11
Lady Sidhe
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---------------------------------
(originally posted by juju)

"You can't accidentally cheat. If you're really committed to your partner, you just don't put yourself in a situation where you might lose control."
-----------------------------------


I agree with that completely. Nothing more can be added. That's about as clear as it gets.




--------------------------------------------
(originally posted by xoxoxobruce)

"Is it honesty or is it faith that make the foundation? Maybe it's faith in their honesty."
---------------------------------------------




"Faith in their honesty." Well put. I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. When you think about it, that's exactly what makes a good foundation of a relationship. You have faith that they're telling you the truth: about loving you, about being faithful, about ....


Sidhe
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Old 02-07-2004, 03:02 AM   #12
Pi
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Re: Re: Re: Better to lie, or to break trust?

Quote:
Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Is it honesty or is it faith that make the foundation? Maybe it's faith in their honesty.
That's so true...
I think (being a victim and a cheater), for your own sake you have to tell when you've cheated. The fact not telling the truth is another point in betraying your love.
But maybe if you're the victim it's better not to know what happened...
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Old 02-07-2004, 06:38 PM   #13
Lady Sidhe
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I dunno...I think I'd rather know. I think that admitting what you've done has a twofold purpose:

It gets things out in the open. It's not eating away at the cheater (because I'm sure all the sneaking around has got to be nerve-wracking after a while), and the person being cheated on doesn't have to wonder anymore (because, on some level, they ALWAYS know, whether they want to face it or not).

It clears the way for either making it or breaking it (the relationship, that is). If the cheater admits what s/he's done, and comes clean because they want to work things out, and the cheatee is willing to do that, then things can move forward from there. Or they can decide to part ways. Counseling of some kind should be a condition of working things out, though.

Some people are just cheaters...they do it for the excitement, the thrill of being able to get someone new into bed, because they don't want to control their hormones, or because they're just plain asses...but for the one-time cheater, there's usually something behind the cheating behavior--for instance, feeling ignored and neglected, resentment over a long-standing wrong that the cheatee refuses to address, or something of that sort. Counseling can help the couple to address the underlying problems, through a neutral third party who may be able to point out things about the relationship that the couple can't or won't see. A third person can help a lot. If they didn't, people wouldn't vent to their friends. However, friends are on one side or the other. Rarely are they neutral, and that's where a counselor comes in.

I think that if both people are committed to saving the relationship, that it CAN be saved. But it DOES take a committment. And not just for a little while. The cheater has to work to regain the betrayed trust, and not put him/herself in positions that can be construed as conducive to cheating by the partner, or that make the partner uncomfortable. That's just respect for the injured partner's feelings. But the cheatee has to be willing to forgive, too. You can never FORGET something like that, but you have to give the other person an opportunity to prove themselves worthy of trust again.


That's my two cents, anyway....

Sidhe
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Old 02-07-2004, 06:47 PM   #14
ladysycamore
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brigliadore
Now when it comes to telling to other person about something like that I have to say it depends on the situation. If you did get drunk (or something else that alters you ability to say no) and you TRULY regretted what you did after and you have a stable and loving relationship with your partner, I say don't tell them (if you can stand the guilt as Sun_Sparkz pointed out). Learn from your mistake, make sure to never put yourself in that position again and try and be the best partner you can for the person you are with. I know the pain it causes to be told, and in my case I was glad he told me as I wouldn't have wanted to marry him only to find out this was a pattern and that he didn't love me (which I believe would have been the case). But if you truly love the person you are with then I say don't tell them and yes even lie to protect them.
The only problem with that is that if something was contracted (disease) or conceived (getting pregnant) by that drunken union...well I'm thinking at SOME point the truth has to be revealed.
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Old 02-07-2004, 06:59 PM   #15
ladysycamore
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Quote:
Originally posted by Riddil
You'd be surprised what you're capable of in the right environment, with the right amount of coercion. The whole process that's leading up to it you're just allowing the person/situation to dictate your actions because each one is just a tiny baby step, and individually really not that bad at all. "What's wrong with some body shots?" And next thing you know you find yourself naked in a hotel room with a bucket of vaseline, 4 midgets and a donkey.
LMAO that's funny. That reminds me of the man that a friend of mine has been seeing for the last 4 years. Granted, he's married with two kids, but married men seems to be her "thing" (but I digress). At any rate, one day he explained to her about an encounter he had (before he met her) in a hotel in Atlantic City while on a business trip. There was some convention going on, and he met up with a woman at the convention. After spending some time together, they decided to leave. They were both drunk as all hell. She wanted to go casino hopping, so he said he wanted to go to his room to change. She went with him and waited in the bedroom while he went to the bathroom. He came out to see her lying naked on the bed. Well, they had sex and his wife was none the wiser. HOWEVER, the excuse that he came up with to explain this to my friend was:

"Well I HAD to have sex with her because she wouldn't leave when I asked her to, so I figured if I fucked her, she'd leave."


When she told me that, words failed...
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