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Old 07-31-2013, 03:29 AM   #286
ZenGum
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That was TW in the Zimmerman Vs Martin Thread:

http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=29213&page=9

Sexo is being a bit of a dick lately, generally. I hope this partial conviction cheers him up.
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:56 AM   #287
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*snicker*
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Old 07-31-2013, 10:57 AM   #288
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OMG Sexobon mistook me for TW ?

... and I wasn't even wearing a hoodie
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:59 PM   #289
sexobon
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Ding Ding Ding! ZenGum wins for guessing the source of the mystery quote. Tw's blanket statement "... In a real world, not guilty does not mean innocent...." seemed apropos. Lamp is kidding himself if he thinks I mistook him for tw; however, it does raise the possibility that they are related. Oh yeah, ZenGum doesn't get even a bit of a dick for winning. Sorry, I know it's been a long time.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:59 PM   #290
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Gee thanks, Judge... Twice

Quote:
(Reuters) - A U.S. military judge reduced potential prison time
for Private First Class Bradley Manning to 90 years from 136 years
on Tuesday by ruling that some sentences for leaking secret files
to WikiLeaks should be merged.
<snip>
Lind ruled during preliminary hearings that the sentence would be
trimmed by 112 days because Manning was mistreated
following his arrest in Iraq in May 2010.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:48 AM   #291
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Lavabit says heavy handed government regulators are driving it out of business. As posted in the Washington Post of 9 Aug 2013:
Quote:
I have been forced to make a difficult decision: to become complicit in crimes against the American people or walk away from nearly ten years of hard work by shutting down Lavabit. After significant soul searching, I have decided to suspend operations. I wish that I could legally share with you the events that led to my decision. I cannot. I feel you deserve to know what’s going on — the first amendment is supposed to guarantee me the freedom to speak out in situations like this. Unfortunately, Congress has passed laws that say otherwise. As things currently stand, I cannot share my experiences over the last six weeks, even though I have twice made the appropriate requests.
What’s going to happen now? We’ve already started preparing the paperwork needed to continue to fight for the Constitution in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. A favorable decision would allow me resurrect Lavabit as an American company.
Lavabit is an encrypted email service used by Snowden.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:40 PM   #292
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The Guardian has a more detailed discussion of this shut-down and of Silent Circle...

The Guardian
Spencer Ackerman
8/9/13

Lavabit email service abruptly shut down citing government interference
Quote:
<snip>The email service reportedly used by surveillance whistleblower Edward Snowden
abruptly shut down on Thursday after its owner cryptically announced his refusal to become
"complicit in crimes against the American people."

Lavabit, an email service that boasted of its security features and claimed 350,000 customers,
is no more, apparently after rejecting a court order for cooperation with the US government
to participate in surveillance on its customers.

It is the first such company known to have shuttered
rather than comply with government surveillance.

Silent Circle, another provider of secure online services, announced on
later Thursday night that it would scrap its own encrypted email offering, Silent Mail.<snip>
Silent Circle said in a blogpost that although it had not received
any government orders to hand over information, "the writing is on the wall".

The founder of Lavabait, Ladar Levison, wrote on the company's website:
"I have been forced to make a difficult decision: to become complicit in crimes
against the American people or walk away from nearly ten years of hard work
by shutting down Lavabit."

The news was first reported by Xeni Jardin the popular news site Boing Boing.<snip>
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:11 PM   #293
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This could be bigger than Snowden himself, because this is where it goes to courts, where the rubber hits the road.
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:26 PM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
This could be bigger than Snowden himself, because this is where it goes to courts, where the rubber hits the road.
We know that James Clapper, America's Director of National Intelligence admitted he gave erroneous answers to Congress about the scale of surveillance. We know the George Jr administration literally bypassed even the FISA court because "rubber stamp approval" of overt spying, extraordinary retention, secret prisons, Guantanamo and torture were not enough.

We also learn from history. When the sneakies intentionally tried to subvert Australian Presidential elections, then the super secret Keyhole spy satellite system was leaked. When Nixon literally massacred 50,000 Americans to protect his legacy, then the Pentagon Papers were leaked. When Nixon literally tried to subvert the American government, then Deep Throat stepped forward to save America. When liars in the military covered up often and repeated murder of innocent civilians, Americans, and reporters, then WikiLeaks exposed those lies.

So now we have spying that literally records every phone call and email. That even intentionally bugs diplomatic communications of our closest allies. And we once thought the book 1984 was only a fictional story. It would never happen in America.

And then so many Americans voted twice for a man so dumb as to even blame 11 September on Saddam Hussein. And declare we would unilaterally invade Iraq, Iran, and North Korea. We are living with a legacy that has empowered people who cannot be trusted with unlimited power.

They did not even tell Congress how massive and anti-American their activities had become. And they routinely destroyed so many Americans who tried to warn us.

Like bankers and stock brokers, these guys need massive oversight and regulation. We never knew how bad it really was until Snowden exposed their deceit. Only then did James Clapper admit he blatantly lied to Congress.

Last edited by tw; 08-09-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:35 PM   #295
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The year is 2013. This is the Obama Administration.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:20 PM   #296
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Oversite is good, and ok. Massive oversite and regulation will hamstring our ability to do the job. Also, we can't let this get to the point where it is unAmerican to join the Military, Police, or to choose to put your talents to work in an organization like the NSA. All of these professions seek to protect the United States. The guys working in these professions, on the whole, are patriots doing their level best to provide offensive/defensive capabilities for us all.
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Old 08-11-2013, 11:18 AM   #297
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Yup. Lots of room in the middle ground.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:26 AM   #298
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
The year is 2013. This is the Obama Administration.
Then learn from history how reality really works. A two or three Trillion (not billion - Trillion) dollars wasted in Mission Accomplished appears on today's spread sheets. The intentional attempt to subvert Australia's government resulted in serious consequences maybe seven years later. Spying without oversight today is directly traceable to Cheney, et al who wanted a dictatorship and more power for his Central Party. His biggest problem - names such as National Socialist and Communist had already been taken.

Historians cite a major reason for WWII. The Versailles Treaty in 1918 resulted in world wide war in the 1940s. How can that be according to your reasoning? Why did mistakes in the Wilson Adminstration cause war in the FDR adminstration? Welcome to how the world really works.

We also know that 30+ years of no innovation in GM products had nothing to do with the resulting bankruptcy? Nonsense.

George Jr's administration intentionally subverts all NSA oversight. We are now just beginning to learn how bad is was. And why some nations are now so adversarial.

We are still undoing the damage created by wacko extremist, anti-American George Jr people. Major enemies of America are Americans who are extremists - not independent, not educated, and not moderate.

We have problems with Iraq, Iran, and North Korea because of Obama? Obviously not. George Jr said we would "Pearl Harbor" them. You read my posts warning of consequences back around 2003 when it was that obvious. Obviously, Obama did not create those problems either.

And yet still some recite a diatribe from Limbaugh, Hannity, Tea Party, and other wackos. Many still refuse to learn of and from history. Others had previously warned of what dumb George Jr was doing. And therefore saw their income and livelyhood destroyed. Finally one blew a whistle loud enough so that most Americans now ignore wacko extremist rhetoric. We now know that unrestricted spying on all Americans was normal. Created by the same people so dumb as to thing unrestricted torture (Nazi style) was also good.

It will take a long time to undo massive damage to American by the dumb George Jr and his administration of wackos extremists. We still have economics problems directly those poeple who were so dumb. Even the American internet has now dropped out of the top ten due to wacko extremists changes created in 2002. How can that be? How do changes a decade ago subvert America's technology today? Welcome to reality. We know consequences can occur four, ten or twenty years later. History does not change because it was ignored.

If anyone should be blamed most, it should be an obvious wacko extremist - Cheney. But then a few people actually saw consequences when liars preached the Axis of Evil. We are now living the legacy of that lie. And the legacy of idiots who then reelected those liars. Being uneducated and brainwashed has consequences even ten plus years later.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:40 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regular.joe View Post
The guys working in these professions, on the whole, are patriots doing their level best to provide offensive/defensive capabilities for us all.
5,000 American patriots decided to massacre themselves in a war that had no purpose? Of course not. They (and the NSA people you mistakenly think are being blamed) did not and must not make any such decisions. We massacred 5,000 servicemen in Iraq because ... well ... posts in 2002 and 2003 still exist in the Cellar today. They did not decide to harm America. We did. So many of us so intentionally ignored history as to massacre 5000 American uselessly in Iraq. And then subverted the American constitution by endorsing wacko extremist fears from Cheney et al.

Did you read George Jr's book published before he was president? Why not? That alone showed how uneducated dumb the man was. But so many want to be told how to think rather than protect 5,000 American servicemen from death.

We have the spy problem because so many here (and that does include you) voted for obviously dumb and wacko extremists who promoted fear. They were obviously lying even in 2002/3. We have the consequences of too many Americans educated by Limbaugh, Fox News, Tea party rhetoric, and even a witch from Delaware.

Hopefully enough Americans are finally learning why the government is spying on everyone. George Jr's administration was only doing what Nixon's people also considered acceptable. 30 years later and we only relive mistakes from history. Those mistakes in early 2000s are now apparent in the 2010s.

Many in the Cellar read the warnings. Ignored them. Voted by George Jr. And are personally responsible for massacring 5000 Americans in Iraq and unrestricted spying even on all American allies. They did not decide to massacre themselves or subvert the Constitution. We did. By even voting into office people clearly too dumb and extremist to be trusted with such powers.

Deja Vue Nam. Not everyone wants to remember warnings attached to that expression.
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:08 AM   #300
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Rampant disregard for the law and privacy protection has been rampant in the NSA. A May 2012 report was leaked to the Washington Post. Yes we have no idea what government is doing without leakers including Bradley Manning. Demonstrating how easy and routine such violations occur. And demonstrating how accurate Snowden has been in protecting the fundamentals of American democracy. The front page Washington Post report of 15 Aug 2013 is entitled "NSA broke privacy rules thousands of times per year, audit finds".
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