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Old 05-02-2013, 09:36 PM   #16
wolf
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So, if someone complies with the ban, does that make them do bees or don't bees?
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:46 AM   #17
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Do bees or not do bees: That is the question.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:14 AM   #18
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hahaha...nice one Griff. lol I don't see you crack too many funnies, so that one was especially good. hehe
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:48 PM   #19
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From the NY Times of 2 May 2013: Coincidentally, tobacco companies are selling an electronic cigarette. They claim is it only vapor. The vapor is actually derived also from nicotine - an insecticide. How many teenagers will suffer similar symptoms?
Actually i don't know how many of them are suffering, but as i know and want to say tobacco cigarette and e-cigs both of them are cigarette and we should avoid it. Cigarettes can never be a good thing.
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Old 01-26-2014, 05:31 PM   #20
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Actually i don't know how many of them are suffering, but as i know and want to say tobacco cigarette and e-cigs both of them are cigarette and we should avoid it. Cigarettes can never be a good thing.
it's weird that after many years of no tobacco advertising at all e-cigarettes are now being advertised on TV as aspirational products.
personally I'm not dumb enough to fall for advertising, but it seems strange that smoking can be advertised by the back door in this way.

I presume that e-cigs are made by the tobacco giants?
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:48 PM   #21
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personally I'm not dumb enough to fall for advertising, but it seems strange that smoking can be advertised by the back door in this way.
Not strange. I lived the experience. Smoke cigarettes to increase your health. At least 60% of Americans 'knew' that. Because brainwashing is that easy. My father wrote those commercials to so easily brainwash a majority.

Most of us are brainwashed. Most believe spin, soundbytes, and advertising. So many so hated the American soldier as to believe the lies about Mission Accomplished. To massacre 5000 for no useful purpose (if you did not learn from that history). Not 'hated' as in thinking logically. 'Hated' as in knowing something emotionally rather than demand numbers and reasons for why. Contempt is when one knows only because we feel it is true; are told what to think. A patriotic American knew "Mission Accomplished" was a lie. For the same reason so many had contempt for seven astronauts as to believe the Challenger was only an accident.

As a kid, I watched my father happily write commercials that proved smoking cigarettes increase health. When the Surgeon General in 1964(?) said cigarettes kill, then our 'Rush Limbaugh' and Tea Party types (of that time) attacked the Surgeon General. Rather than learn how easily they can be brainwashed. The same easily brainwashed majority only s decade ago ago 'hated' non-hetrosexuals. Brainwashing is so easily that Freedom Riders in the 1960 were murdered because they registered blacks (then called negros) to vote.

Most of us are that easily brainwashed. For the same reason (in another thread) so many foolishly buy surge protectors that do not protect from typically destructive surges. That can make surge damage easier. And sometimes create house fires. So many just 'knew' evil communists in Vietnam threatened our lives and security. When facts said something different.

So many are so easily brainwashed as to believe Danon Yogurt increases health using Digitalis Rectalitis (or whatever it is called). Even spend excessively for energy drinks that probably harm health for the same reason that Freud recommended cocaine. Because most of us are that easily brainwashed - using concepts that Hitler described in his book Mein Kampf.

Why did so many follow and believe one of the most 'so called' evil men in history? For the same reason why so many would torture 'prisoners' in Zimbardo's famous Stamford University prisoner experiment. Or loved Guantanamo. A majority will do only what they are told (like a child) rather than demand the 'always required reasons why' that adults require.

George Jr's "Mission Accomplished" war back in 2003 is a classic example of a majority brainwashed by soundbytes and lies. Read posts here (back in 2003) to appreciate facts denied because so many 'feel' rather than demand facts and numbers. Because a lying (or ignorant) president told them how to think. Brainwashing.

I do not disparge my father for one minute. He did good by brainwashing the ignorant and anti-Americans. Unfortuntately so many of us still remain so anti-American as to not learn from that history. As so many were also brainwashed by Richard Nixon in Nam.

Learn from history. Or learn from others who recite rhetoric and soundbytes.

I was recently drinking beer with people I had not seen for over 40 years. One kept reciting the same expressions I knew to be brainwashing. Turns out my close friend from over 40 years ago, his father worked with my father to brainwash less educated (less patriotic) Americans into knowing you 'smoke cigarettes to increase your health'. Good for him and my father. Bad for so many American citizens today who still refuse to learn from history.

Last edited by tw; 01-26-2014 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:53 PM   #22
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There goes 1/81 of my night I'll never get back.....
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:04 PM   #23
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There goes 1/81 of my night I'll never get back.....
Curious number. Is it based in facts? Or your feelings?
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:32 PM   #24
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Complete bullshit. Every smoker, and I mean every damn one, knew smoking wasn't good for their health. They didn't need the Surgeon General to tell them that, they could feel it. Anyone who's smoked for a year, or more, knows exactly what I'm talking about, regardless of what they say in court.
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:47 AM   #25
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Complete bullshit. Every smoker, and I mean every damn one, knew smoking wasn't good for their health.
True because you feel it is true? A classic example of feelings that contradict facts from history. A classic example that explains why so many Germans knew Jews were vermon.

In 1946, RJ Reynolds began a six year advertising campaign that said , “More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette.” A typical advertisement claimed 113597 doctors “from every branch of medicine,” smoked Camels. Camel then cited the T zone (mouth) as proof. Camel claimed their cigarettes tasted better. Because they said so, then many believed a better taste. It increased sales.

Viceroy advertised, "As your Denist, I recommend Viceroys." They quoted Dentists. Lucky Strike claimed a toasting process decreased throat irratation. With Walter Winchell (famous newsman and the voice of The Untouchables) promoting it without public objection.

Phillip Morris claimed that diethylene-glycol made their cigarettes moister and less irritating than other brands. Somehow injections into rabbit eyes proved their products were healthier (as if diethylene-glycol creates health). Camel then claimed their slower burning cigarettes were even healthier. By 1954, L&M filter cigarettes used the famous expression, "Just what the doctor ordered". Then Kent advertised microfilters. More reasons why cigarettes are so safe. All outright lies without any outcry or public denial. Because the majority *knew* smoking increased health. LSMFT - Lucky Strike means fine tobacco. Jack Benny said so. So it was true.

After 1950, Readers Digest (and medical publications in the US and UK) reported cigarettes were dangerous. A temporary sales decrease resulted. Followed in 1954 by strongly increasing sales since a majority routinely believe advertising and propaganda - not science. How can this be since Bruce says "I mean every damn one, knew smoking wasn't good for their health". Well they could have known. They should have known. But a majority are that easily brainwashed - facts be damned.

Yes, facts said tobacco clearly kills. Nobody here disputes that. A 2014 observer would assume everyone *knew* that. 'Assume' rather than learn from history. A 2014 observer forgets a majority are easily brainwashed by advertising, hearsay, myths, and lies. A majority with facts will still often believe myths. Facts say a majority should have known the science; and still believed smoking increases health. Does not matter what they could have know. Relevent here is why so many are so easily brainwashed by lies that contradict facts and numbers.

How many believe a plug-in surge protector myth? Existance of one in your house demonstrates the power of brainwashing (propaganda).

Some today know that must be wrong only because they *know* people could not be that easily manipulated. For the same reason so many knew Saddam did not have WMDs? Or that torture is good and useful? Examples of 'knowledge' based only in emotions - facts be damned. That is brainwashing. It works.

xoxoxoBruce accurately states that many 'should' have known cigarettes are hazardous. Yes, facts said so; without doubt. But his speculation does not prove a fact. So many are emotional; not logical. So many are easily brainwashed by hearsay, advertising, and propaganda; by the first thing they are told. That reality does not change because one dislikes it. Just because everyone should have known does not mean they did. So many will believe spin, myths, and lies rather than facts and numbers. Most knew cigarettes promoted health even though science had said otherwise. What one should know is often trumped by emotions. A majority 'knew' cigarettes increased health.
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:07 PM   #26
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You always ask for proof of the improvable, but anyone who smoked knows exactly what I'm talking about, and you are moot.
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:46 AM   #27
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... but anyone who smoked knows exactly what I'm talking about, and you are moot.
If your poorly explained reasoning made sense, then no one would try cigarettes. Then 40% of the under 30 year olds would not be smoking. Despite your feelings, advertising and other forms of brainwashing are that effective.

Denying it because you 'feel' proves nothing. Your 'feelings' cannot explain an increasing number of young adults who now start smoking. Your 'feelings' are contradicted by the overwhelming numbers of 1950s smokers who knew smoking cigarettes increased health. Your denials contradict the evidence. But you know because you 'feel'. And that is the point. You demonstrate why advertising works. It easily manipulates the many who know only from what they feel.

It is only 'improvable' because your denials are contrary to facts, examples, and what professionals knew even in the 1950s. It is only 'improvable' because your knowledge instead comes from emotion. Emotion that explains why brainwashing works.
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Old 01-28-2014, 02:19 PM   #28
xoxoxoBruce
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Keep telling yourself that.
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:06 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by tw
If your poorly explained reasoning made sense, then no one would try cigarettes. Then 40% of the under 30 year olds would not be smoking.
Most people are not so clinically logical, tw. People make bad choices in life even when they know it's a bad choice. I daresay many people under 30 choose to smoke precisely because they know it hurts them.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:16 PM   #30
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I daresay many people under 30 choose to smoke precisely because they know it hurts them.
And that is the point. Many ignore facts; instead entertain their emotions. These people are targetted by advertising. Because these are the easiest to brainwash.

The term 'brainwash' might mean something different to you. However, the under 30s you have described meet the provided definition of brainwashed.

Jews obviously were not vermon. Everybody knew that. Everybody could see that. But the concept described as brainwashing got an overwhelming number to consider Jews as vermon anyway.

Getting one to choose based upon their feelings is how, for example, so many Germans supported someone and some party that was otherwise bad for them. Logic (one part of the brain) was circumvented by emotions (another part of the brain). So they supported what was not good for them.

Why did Zimbardo's test subjects 'torture' others? Because they were told to; could not think for themselves. You are correct. Most people are not clinically logical. And yet those same people will also deny that are so easily manipulated.

Its not so much that 'under 30s' harm themselves intentionally. They harm themselves because they do not realize (and will often deny) how easily they have been manipulated.

Apple's first and famous Superbowl commercial specifically targetted that decision process.
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