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Old 08-24-2011, 12:02 PM   #31
classicman
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I was thinking the same fff.
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:32 PM   #32
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footfootfoot View Post
Wasn't Jinx into fracking? I thought she had some property that was fracked.
she threw him out
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:03 PM   #33
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ow snap
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:22 AM   #34
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The "fracking industry" seems to be having a field day in the countryside of eastern Pennsylvania.

Obviously, living in Oregon I don't have a personal stake in this issue,
but we have seen the long, very long, term effects of industrial mining on water resources.
Once water supplies are contaminated, the costs of reclaiming is too high and the land is abandoned.

This article speaks to the small number of people in the areas who get jobs, and actually $ from the industry.

NY Times
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
Published: October 14, 2011

Gas Boom Aids Pennsylvania, but Some Worry Over the Risk
Quote:
The gas boom is transforming small towns like this one (population 4,400 and growing)
and revitalizing the economy of this once-forgotten stretch of rural northeastern Pennsylvania.
<snip>
But the boom — brought on by an advanced drilling technique called hydraulic fracturing,
known as fracking — has brought problems too.

While the gas companies have created numerous high-paying drilling jobs,
many residents lack the skills for them.
Some people’s drinking water has been contaminated.
Narrow country roads are crumbling under the weight of heavy trucks.
With housing scarce and expensive, more residents are becoming homeless.
Local services and infrastructure are strained.

“Very little tax revenue goes to local governments to help them
share in the benefits of the economic development,” said Sharon Ward,
executive director of the Pennsylvania Budget and Policy Center,
an independent policy research organization.

And some are asking whether short-term gains have obscured the long-term view
of an industry marked by boom-bust cycles.<snip>

In Pennsylvania, more than 3,000 wells have been drilled in the past three years
and permits for thousands more have been issued.
Here in Susquehanna County, a poor rural county of which Montrose is the seat,
262 wells had been drilled by a half-dozen different gas companies as of the end of July;
permits have been issued for 400 more.
.
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:23 AM   #35
Griff
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According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, Susquehanna County is in the middle 20% of the country for household income and our unemployment rate was 7.5% in August. It was a lot poorer when I was a kid.

I would also assume gas dollars are spread widely as virtually every landowner in the county who wanted to sign a lease did. Landmen screwed a bunch of people early on, underpaying for lease rights, but the real money for landowners is in royalties. The minimum royalty in PA is 12.5%. To preserve its rural character, Susquehanna County has a minimum lot size of 10 acres, which was implemented years ago when dairy farms were being broken up due to retirements and the milk price collapse. I assume any land, presently in a gas unit, purchased from that time on is large enough to produce significant income.

Our county has long been dependent on folks working outside its borders so I'm glad to see local truckers and heavy equipment operators working locally. I'm concerned about the impact on our water, but fracking technique has improved since 1982 and so far as I've seen the mistakes made around here have been more in the handling of the bulk materials not so much in the drilling process itself. We should be taxing these guys at a rate high enough to cover regulatory oversight. The road issue is interesting because a lot of dirt roads have been improved by the drilling companies so they can access remote properties, but that should probably be formalized as well.
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:59 AM   #36
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I understand the whole "jobs" thing,
and the "dependence on foreign oil" thing.

My problem with fracking can be put in a nutshell:
Quote:
My neighbors sign a lease agreement, but I don't.
Something goes wrong... ground water is contaminated
My family is S.O.L. - my whole community is S.O.L.
Followed by
Quote:
Property values go down, many people move away
More fracking ensues...
The gas companies go happily along their way
Then maybe
Quote:
NIH and CDC discover birth defects due to fracking chemicals
Gas companies blame the "fracking companies"
Everyone whines "Oh my, how sad "
One thing I might like... the possibilities for bumper stickers:
Xxxx the FRACKING DRILLING COMPANIES
.....FRACKING COMPANIES SUCK GAS
..........SHUT UP and EAT YOUR FRACKING SOUP

Unfortunately, there are other issues with such mining, but that's for another day.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:35 AM   #37
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Here are a couple of other maps I've come across:

Earth Justice
Geology.com
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:58 AM   #38
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A big Pandora's box has been opened for those
who have "fracking-leased" their property
within the area of the Marcellus shale.

NY Times
By IAN URBINA
Published: October 19, 2011

Rush to Drill for Natural Gas Creates Conflicts With Mortgages
Quote:
As natural gas drilling has spread across the country,
energy industry representatives have sat down at kitchen tables in states
like Texas, Pennsylvania and New York to offer homeowners leases
that give companies the right to drill on their land.
<snip>
But bankers and real estate executives, especially in New York,
are starting to pay closer attention to the fine print and are raising provocative questions,
such as: What happens if they lend money for a piece of land that ends up
storing the equivalent of an Olympic-size swimming pool filled with toxic wastewater from drilling?
The first reaction to these "fracking leases" is among the lending institutions:
Quote:
Fearful of just such a possibility, some banks have become reluctant
to grant mortgages on properties leased for gas drilling.
At least eight local or national banks do not typically issue mortgages on such properties, *lenders say.
For the individual property owner is this warning:
Quote:
Some real estate agents have started raising red flags
“When you decide to sell your house you may find it difficult to do so because many banks,
here and elsewhere, will not mortgage properties with gas leases, which,
in turn, limits the number of buyers willing and able to buy your property,”
wrote Linda Hirvonen, an agent in Ithaca, N.Y., in a newsletter last month.
Obviously, real estate that can not be mortaged will eventually be abandoned.
---
This NY Times article is 3 pages, and it goes on to discuss
some of the national and political issues that are or may result
from these "fine print" issues.
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:53 AM   #39
Griff
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Pretty good Q and A this morning on Capitol Connection.

The industry has a new site that is supposed to allow you to track the chemicals which were used in each well, but I don't see any useful information yet. Fracktrack.org
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Old 10-23-2011, 11:42 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
Pretty good Q and A this morning on Capitol Connection.

The industry has a new site that is supposed to allow you to track the chemicals
which were used in each well, but I don't see any useful information yet. Fracktrack.org
Good catch, Griff. It's a very interesting discussion - well worth the listen.

It was frustrating to listen, yet not be able to either disagree or ask a (pointed) question.
Likewise it's ironic (but predictable) that Dr. Conrad relies so heavily
on "regulators" to prevent or control issues, but the industry is pushing for less regulation.

My ultimate question would be... regardless how it happens or who is at fault,
what will the (fracking) industry do if/when ground water actually is contaminated ?

Conrad's thesis that State agencies (regulators) have now or will have
the where-with-all to "visit a site, diagnose the problem and fix it" was truly disingenuous.
.
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:21 PM   #41
Griff
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Nice piece in the Times by a guy who went ahead with it.
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:51 PM   #42
Lamplighter
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The last line:
Quote:
I still don’t really know the answer.
Oh, I think he does: Fracking is not what it's cracked up to be
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:56 AM   #43
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Cooperstown is talking about fracking... and not just the Baseball Hall of Fame

Mother Nature Network
Baseball Hall of Fame blacklists fracking
Quote:
The National Baseball Hall of Fame supports the Cooperstown Chamber of Commerce's anti-fracking position.
“As a member of the Cooperstown Chamber of Commerce,
the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum supports the Chamber’s
recent resolution that hydrofracking for shale gas in Otsego County
could cause serious damage to the qualities that make Cooperstown
a world-renowned tourist destination and a unique community.
Bloomberg News
Cooperstown Brewer Fights N.Y. Fracking Sought by EOG Resources

The Daily Star
Trustees: Fracking may leave Cooperstown in 'permanent recession'

NY Times
Issue of drilling turns personal, nasty in village.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:07 PM   #44
Lamplighter
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Bloomberg News
Brian Swint, ©2011
Wednesday, November 2, 2011

Gas Fracking Probably Caused Blackpool Earthquakes in U.K.
Quote:
Nov. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Two small earthquakes near Blackpool in northwest England
earlier this year were probably caused by hydraulic fracturing,
a technique of grinding underground rocks to extract natural gas.

It's "highly probable" that fracking, as the process is known,
at the Preese Hall-1 site caused the quakes, U.K.-based shale explorer
Cuadrilla Resources Ltd. said in a report published today.

The geological circumstances were "rare" and the strongest possible tremor,
of a magnitude of 3, wouldn't be a risk to safety or property on the surface, it said.
<snip>
The fracking company in this link plans ~ 400 wells in the area.

IIRC back in the 50's, liquid wastes pumped into the old wells lead to earthquakes near Denver.
About the same time, new dams and lakes in the West were shown (statistically) to be sources of earthquakes.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:20 PM   #45
ZenGum
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Any large change to the weight on a patch of earth will lead to earthquakes. The (more-or-less solid) crust floats on the (viscous liquid) mantle, and if you build up weight at one point, the crust gradually sinks. This happens a lot at the end of ice ages when the ice caps melt. China's three Gorges Dam has earthquakes every year as it fills and empties. Any large structure causes this.

Good news? These are tiny earthquakes. The only quakes to worry about are continental plate boundaries shifting.

The contamination of ground water, long term, over a wide area, is a very real concern.

How about a ten-year moratorium on new fracking to let us assess the consequences of the fracking done so far? And if it turns out that groundwater is not getting contaminated, we can do more fracking.
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