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Old 11-13-2011, 05:10 PM   #76
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
..., but Jacqie is right storage is the real barrier.
Storage is one technique for adapting to a changing load. Electricity is another technique to address the actual problem.

This is old technology. Implemented even in 1930 diesel electric locomotives to make another poor system redundant - steam locomotives. Steam locomotive was obsoleted quickly because it could not adapt to a changing load.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:13 PM   #77
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From the NY Times of 2 Dec 2011:
Quote:
Learning Too Late of the Perils in Gas Well Leases
So Mr. Ely said he was surprised several years later when the drilling company, Cabot Oil and Gas, informed them that rather than draining and hauling away the toxic drilling sludge stored in large waste ponds on the property, it would leave the waste, cover it with dirt and seed the area with grass. He knew that waste pond liners can leak, seeping contaminated waste.

"I guess our terms should have been clearer" about requiring the company to remove the waste pits after drilling, said Mr. Ely, of Dimock, Pa., who sued Cabot after his drinking water from a separate property was contaminated. "We learned that the hard way." ...

In Pennsylvania, Colorado and West Virginia, some landowners have had to spend hundreds of dollars a month to buy bottled water or maintain large tanks, known as water buffaloes, for drinking water in their front yards. They said they learned only after the fact that the leases did not require gas companies to pay for replacement drinking water if their wells were contaminated, and despite state regulations, not all costs were covered. ...

Some industry officials say the criticism of their business practices is misguided. Asked about the waste pits on Mr. Ely’s land in Pennsylvania, for example, George Stark, a Cabot spokesman, said the company’s cleanup measures met or exceeded state requirements. ...

Mr. Astrella said that leases also typically lacked a clause requiring drillers to pay for a test of the property's well water before drilling started, and landowners often do not think to do the tests themselves. If drilling leads to problems with drinking wells, landowners have few options if they want to prove that their water was fine before drilling started.

For some landowners, it can be a costly mistake.

"It's been one expense after another since our water went bad, and the company only has to cover part of it," said Ronald Carter, 72, of Montrose, Pa. ...

On Wednesday, Cabot stopped delivering water to the Carters, the Elys and others in Dimock after state regulators said the company had satisfied requirements of a settlement agreement with the state.
Drilling is already contaminating land and water that provides drinking water for Wilkes Barre, Harrisburg, and Chesapeake Bay (Maryland). That includes Dimock and Montrose. Other water sources currently protected but under threat of future drilling include drinking water for Easton, Philadelphia, Wilmington, and a large part of western New Jersey including Princeton.

The Governor of PA has been taking major campaign contributions for stifling all regulation on these drillers. Has insisted all this has not contaminated water supplies. Has banned taxes on any of these wells except by the local county. Even townships get nothing from the risk that they are stuck with long after the drilling companies have no more responsibility. Cities such as Pittsburgh and Philadelphia must suffer risk to their water supplies but get no money from the mineral rights.

Burial of toxic chemicals inside plastic sheets is supposed to protect the water? Nonsense.

They can leave extremely toxic chemicals on the land. PA Governor Tom Corbett says that is safe.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:48 PM   #78
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Put simply, the federal laws are slanted in favor of shielding fracking operations,
and state laws are currently insufficient to protect the public interests.

It's up to citizens in each state to get ahead of the fracking industry
by getting state laws updated enough to protect land owners and water resouces.

Of course, the fracking industry is relatively certain this won't happen in time to stop them.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:29 AM   #79
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Hey, we allow poisons in our air and rat shit in our food, why start regulating now?
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:01 AM   #80
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There is an improved version of fracking on the way called liquified petroleum gas fracking that will eliminate the use of water which has been a major problem.

I'm assuming the the buried waste is being contained the same way landfills do it, which may not be good enough. I don't know the level of contamination we're talking about though. The whole system needs to be transparent, but Corbett and Cabot hate that idea. We are talking about one player, Cabot, which has proven to be a corner cutter and ought to be cut out of the picture. The water delivery thing is a made for media event, however. Cabot was going to hook them to municipal water, but they refused. They then offered to put methane elimination in each house and were refused. They didn't want the problem dealt with, probably due to lawyerly intervention looking for a big cash payout, which is understandable. The contamination is upper level methane which existed in their water to some extent but may have been exacerbated but improper concreting. They do not have fracking chemicals in their well water. The lefty mayor of Binghamton is now inserting himself into the situation, so there will be many photo ops.
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:36 AM   #81
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Griff, thanks for finding this article.
It's the first I've seen that seems to offer any better way to go.

Like any "new" idea, there are always questions lingering in the background.
Some are discussed in the link provided within your article.

The one of greatest concern right now seems to be the US patent
and proprietary aspects of implementation.
Apparently the patent is awaiting US approval, and held by a small company
that may not be able to service the entire industry.
Plus the wait-and-see attitude of the existing fracking companies.
In the meantime the "water-fracking" companies will continue doing what they do.

Cost and potential danger of explosions have to be considered,
but these are routine bean-counter and technical steps along the way.

Again Griff, good catch.
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:04 PM   #82
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Your congress in action - working for the good of (his) people

NY Times
ERIC LIPTON
12/3/11

As Gas Riches Remake Plains, Lawmaker Shares in Bounty
Quote:
The spreading wealth from gas fields has also benefited Representative Dan Boren,
a Democrat who has deep family ties to the industry
— and has acted as one of its best friends on Capitol Hill.

Mr. Boren’s stepfather is an independent oil and natural gas producer in East Texas, just over the border.
His father, David Boren, a former senator and Oklahoma governor, received $350,000 last year
in total compensation for serving on the board of Continental Resources,
whose stock has surged while it helps lead the exploration of gas reserves nationwide.<snip>

Mr. Boren was among the 41 House Democrats who joined Republicans
in 2005 to pass legislation that largely prohibited the federal government
from regulating fracking under the Safe Water Drinking Act,
and he has repeatedly pushed the Obama administration since then to keep the prohibition in place.<snip>

The congressman’s income has jumped in the last six years, thanks to two family businesses
he partly owns that have signed more than 300 mineral leases,
worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Many of those deals are with Chesapeake Energy, a top donor to his campaigns.<snip>

Between 2005, when Mr. Boren entered Congress, and 2011, his family
signed 325 oil and gas leases on thousands of acres of mineral rights;
in the previous five years they signed only 35, according to state records.<snip>

Serving as co-chairman of the House Natural Gas Caucus, Mr. Boren has worked
to block any move by federal regulators to restrain the drilling and efforts
by the Obama administration to curtail tax benefits for the gas and oil industries.
He has also pushed for federal incentives to increase demand for natural gas.

And he sees no problem with entangling his professional advocacy and his self-interest.
“There’s zero conflict,” Mr. Boren said in an interview.
“It’s like if you are living in a timber community and your parents are working for the local mill.
You should go and advocate for your local mill, even if you derive some benefit from it.”
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:56 PM   #83
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The (E) elite party... The (Letter) after their name means very little anymore other than which sales pitch they are throwing.
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:54 PM   #84
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Lots of borderline criminal stuff going on here. A couple local lawyers were representing gas companies and land-owners and buying property to lease to the gas companies... They didn't even get dis(?)barred even though they clearly had a conflict of interest.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:05 PM   #85
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And the damages to water resources continues,
but now EPA had joined the friggin fracking fracus.


LA Times

Neela Banerjee, Washington Bureau
December 8, 2011

EPA says 'fracking' probably contaminated well water in Wyoming

Quote:
The Environmental Protection Agency said that hydraulic fracturing,
a controversial natural gas drilling process, probably contaminated well water in Wyoming,
a finding sure to roil the debate about expanding natural gas drilling around the country.

The EPA's new draft report found dangerous amounts of benzene in a monitoring well
near the town of Pavillion, in central Wyoming.

The EPA is conducting a comprehensive study about the possible effect
of "fracking" on water resources, but initial results are not expected until late 2012.
As a result, the Pavillion report may not give either side in the fracking debate
the conclusive answers they seek.

But the EPA report is the first that uses multiple, on-the-ground samples
to determine the effect of fracking on underground water sources in areas of oil and gas development.

"Alternative explanations were carefully considered to explain individual sets of data,"
the EPA report said of the presence of synthetic chemicals found in the Wyoming water.
"However, when considered together with other lines of evidence, the data indicate
likely impact to groundwater that can be explained by hydraulic fracturing."
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:57 AM   #86
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The Feds are looking into the Dimock situation after the state DEP essentially sided with the gas company. I'd been pretty skeptical of the land-owner claims assuming some level of neutrality at DEP. We'll see what the Feds say. Dem President and Rep Governor somebody or everybody is letting political expediency guide what should be a clear issue of environmental testing. Yay for election years...

There is also another new fracking method coming on line that is more an expansion of the old technique than a less controversial technology. Interesting times...
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:44 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
Lots of borderline criminal stuff going on here.
In much the same way as the Atlantic ocean is a border between North America and Europe.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:56 PM   #88
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EPA: Water quality OK in Pa. gas drilling town
Contamination in Dimock wells within safe levels, it says


SCRANTON, Pa. -- Federal environmental regulators said Thursday that well water testing at 11 homes in a northeastern Pennsylvania village where a gas driller was accused of polluting the aquifer failed to show elevated levels of contamination.

The Environmental Protection Agency, which is sampling well water at dozens of homes in Dimock, Susquehanna County, said initial test results "did not show levels of contamination that could present a health concern."

Dimock has been at the center of a fierce debate over the environmental and public health impacts of Pennsylvania's Marcellus Shale drilling industry.

State environmental regulators had previously determined that Houston-based Cabot Oil & Gas Corp. contaminated the aquifer underneath homes along Carter Road in Dimock with explosive levels of methane gas. Residents who are suing Cabot assert their water is also polluted with drilling chemicals. Many other residents of Dimock say that the water is clean and that the plaintiffs are exaggerating problems with their wells to help their lawsuit.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:23 PM   #89
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Three cheers for Oceania! We've defeated Eurasia!
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:35 PM   #90
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Dimock? Isn't that Cantonese for death touch?

Foots, your very cheery tonight.
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