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Old 12-17-2013, 09:54 AM   #46
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My executive summary of that quoted text:

Two steps forward, one step back. Could be worse.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:20 AM   #47
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The older I get, the more annoyed I get with organised religion.
Then again, perhaps it's just that the older I get, the more annoyed I get.

It's probably a good thing that I am slated to die young, otherwise I'd self combust by the time I reached 60.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:26 PM   #48
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Sounds like he knows how the game is played, and is willing to leave his ivory tower to get down and dirty. Don't fuck with the bouncer.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:52 AM   #49
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By coincidence or design, another anniversary for my posting

This year the situation is much better....


Vatican Report Cites Achievements and Challenges of U.S. Nuns
NY Times
LAURIE GOODSTEIN
DEC. 16, 2014

Quote:
A Vatican investigation of American nuns started under the previous pope,
which prompted protests from outraged Catholics, ended in Rome on Tuesday
with the release of a generally appreciative report that acknowledged
the achievements and the challenges the nuns face given their dwindling ranks.

The relatively warm tone in the report, and at the Vatican news conference that released it,
was a far cry from six years ago when the investigation was announced,
creating fear, anger and mistrust among women in religious communities
and convents across the United States.
<snip>
Cardinal Rodé was replaced as head of the Vatican’s office on religious orders,
and the report was finished in 2012 under Cardinal João Braz de Aviz,
who said he wanted to “rebuild trust” with the nuns,
Francis, who was elected last year, has said repeatedly that he wants
to create more opportunities for women to have decision-making roles in the Vatican, and in church leadership.
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:44 PM   #50
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An apropos joke:

A guy from the Bronx has a wild, sex and booze fueled debauched weekend. Monday morning he goes to his parish priest, Father Mazzanotti, and makes a confession to assuage his guilt. Needless to say the priest is wholly (haha) taken aback and prescribes a severe penance including daily mass, fasting, stations of the cross, charity work, novenas, the whole megillah. (haha again)

On his way to work the guy is beside himself at the enormity of his penance, figuring it will take weeks and all of his vacation time. He gets off the subway on the lower east side and decides to stop into a church near his work and get a second opinion.

Father Ruiz is hearing confessions that morning and the man goes in and confesses the same sins including a few more from the weekend that he remembered on the train ride. Father Ruiz listens and says, "God is forgiving, my son. Ligth a candle, say two Hail Marys and an Our Father, and put five bucks in the poor box."

The guy is flabbergasted and says to Father Ruiz "I confessed those same sins to my parish priest and he gave me this enormous penance: daily mass, fasting, stations of the cross, charity work, novenas, the whole megillah." "Why the difference?"

Father Ruiz says to him "Ahhh, what do they know about fancy fucking in the Bronx?"


And no, neither the nun nor anyone else fainted.
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Old 12-26-2014, 05:39 PM   #51
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Pope lambasts the Curia. Not one Cellar moderate has a comment? Is this board slowly conceding to its extremists? Do moderates now fear to discuss issues because extremists will make discussion nasty?
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:06 PM   #52
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I just hope he has the stamina, chutzpah, and determination,
along with the appropriate number of food-tasters, tactical vests,
and Uguisu-Bari floors to see his philosophy thru to completion.
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:08 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw View Post
Not one Cellar moderate has a comment? Is this board slowly conceding to its extremists? Do moderates now fear to discuss issues because extremists will make discussion nasty?
Almost all the moderates were chased away by asshat extremists like yourself.
Some of us no longer care to discuss these issues as they create such animosity elsewhere on the board.

However, watching/reading you get your ass handed to you repeatedly by noboxes has been quite entertaining.
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Old 12-26-2014, 11:49 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
I just hope he has the stamina, chutzpah, and determination, along with the appropriate number of food-tasters, tactical vests, and Uguisu-Bari floors to see his philosophy thru to completion.
So what is that philosophy? Have battle lines formed? This Pope clearly defined an enemy. But who in the Curia are examples of that enemy?

I suspect Jesuits have sided with the Pope. But even that is speculation. Are, for example, Dominicans lining up against him? Have Fransicans taken a stand. Or do potential battle lines form along different parameters such as Italians verses non-Italians?

Was his speech before the Curia a declaraion of war? Or will his reform remain as non-existant as it has been so far? Is he simply blowing hot air before an entrenched. too powerful, and self gratifying Curia?

Is there anything worthy of being called a fact? Nasty poster need not post again since, as usual, he has nothing useful to contribute - only cheapshot attacks. I do not see anything that even says why a previous Pope resigned. Does anyone has any indication of what is going on; of what this Pope's strategy really is? Has a underground war broken out? Or is this talk of reform only smoke?
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Old 12-27-2014, 08:37 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw View Post
Is there anything worthy of being called a fact? <snip>
I suspect that until a few years pass we will not know anything certain. But for now,
your questions have the flavor of those who challenge Presidential actions by Obama.
Some only see a black man as President and can't abide it,
while others see a list of his decisions for the US government
as the important initial changes that are/will be beneficial to American society.

Regarding the Pope, I think 2 of my previously postings speak closely to your questions:

loc. cit. #45

loc. cit. #49
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:57 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
I just hope he has the stamina, chutzpah, and determination,
along with the appropriate number of food-tasters, tactical vests,
and Uguisu-Bari floors to see his philosophy thru to completion.
Uguisu-Bari floors? Do you think Big Frankie will take the Cards to the mattresses?
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Old 12-28-2014, 01:25 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
Regarding the Pope, I think 2 of my previously postings speak closely to your questions:
One promotion implied reform. Another implied status quo. The removal of Cardinal Justin Rigali is simply a response to a Philadelphia Archdiocese that all but protected pedophilia. Even the most conservative Pope would have / should have removed that Cardinal. And should have been followed with majore Archdiocese house cleaning - that as best I can tell did not happen.

Evidence concerning actual reform is vague. Plenty of talk with little obvious action. Apparently the Church needs another butler to leak memos. Since that forces action.
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:32 PM   #58
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TW: I have no strong ideas about how Pope Francis is going to succeed.
Demoting bishops and cardinals who speak out against him is only a tactic, not a strategy.
But one indicator for the future may well be to follow the future of Seattle Archbishop J. Peter Sartain.

On one hand, he has been given “directorship” of the Leadership Council of Women Religious (LCWR)
which represents about 80 percent of America’s 57,000 nuns. And so far, it appears the Pope and
the Archbishop are favorably disposed towards the stated mission of the LCWR.

On the other hand, watching what happens with Seattle's Cardinal Gerard Muller may also be an indicator
… if this outspoken Cardinal is demoted or in other ways loses power, I would view that as a sign the Pope is succeeding.

Archbishop Sartain is also a good indicator regarding opening the church’s records about the whole pedophile mess.
Seratain will "decide" an important response regarding a particular cleric in the Seattle area,
where a retired judge and a District Attorney have “requested / demanded”
the records on that case held by the Church’s Review Board.

Last edited by Lamplighter; 12-28-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:06 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter View Post
On the other hand, watching what happens with Seattle's Cardinal Gerard Muller may also be an indicator
… if this outspoken Cardinal is demoted or in other ways loses power, I would view that as a sign the Pope is succeeding.
Devil is in those details.

Another interesting event was couples testifying before top Church leadership on their sex lives and why sex (not for reproduction) is so critically important to a strong marriage. I suspect this was, to bishops and Cardinals, equivalent to a topless strip club visit. Bishops and Cardinals should be teaching sex 'not for reproduction' (and birth control) as essential to being a good Catholic. Maybe they could start by reading an old book, "The Joy of Sex".

What previous Pope tried to introduce church management to the 20th Century? Those 16th Century leaders have little grasp of the 21st Century. They even and suddenly discovered pedophilia is evil.

This Pope may have forced demented Church leadership to learn what was common knolwledge in the roaring 20s. So yes, this Pope may be doing some things to reform his church. But we still do not see big actions. We only see bits and pieces - details.

Who really is in control? The Pope or the Curia? An answer only possible by learning details - such as were leaked by the Pope's Butler. After the Pope's pre-Christmas speech, some expected to learn by how the Curia responded. Apparently secrecy to protect evil is still SNAFU.
Quote:
Seratain will "decide" an important response regarding a particular cleric in the Seattle area, where a retired judge and a District Attorney have “requested / demanded” the records on that case held by the Church’s Review Board.
That should have occurred in every juridiction all over the world decades ago. Described is nothing new. Lynn Abraham in Philadelphia did that almost 15 years ago. And still extremists in the PA Legislature refuse to reform State laws to prosecute pedophiles and those who protect pedophiles. A problem that still exists in most states in this nation.

Seratain may only be doing what every bishop and Cardinal should have been force by state and Federal laws to do decades ago. We know the Church openly protected pedophiles in so many nations including the most Catholic nations of Ireland and Spain.

So what was Monty Python saying? Nobody (still) expects the Spanish Inquisition ... that would actually attack evil. Where is Cardinal Fang when we need him to institute reform using a Fluffy Cushion? Is that also being done behind the scenes?
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Old 12-28-2014, 09:07 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
Uguisu-Bari floors? Do you think Big Frankie will take the Cards to the mattresses?
... at least he would hear them coming.







I apologize... the devil made me do it.
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