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Old 12-20-2007, 05:29 PM   #16
icileparadise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regular.joe View Post
Lets pretend for a minute that our system of electing the president in the U.S. is not the electoral college.

If less then 50 percent of eligible voters vote. Then the president is really elected by a majority of the minority.

It has been my observation that the majority rarely rules, ever, in any system.
Give a list of candidates for the Presidency and vote. It's very simple. But we have bias here: friends, Old boy network, gooooood Lawyers, gerrymandering, all sorts of manipulations. Truth is: it does not matter who you vote for the Government always gets in. In Britain we have the first past the post system, electoral seats = winner. Even if the total national vote was overwhemingly against that result. It IS strange how a minority vote can lead to the power.
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:42 PM   #17
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I think that was probably true pre-2000, before Florida and the hanging chads. I don't think it's true today. I bet I could head down to the mall and get a moderately accurate explanation of the electoral college system from 7 out of 10 random people.
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lol - I'll take that bet, smoothmoniker. They may have known for a little while, but not too much anymore. They are more interested in the happenings of Britney and Paris and the like.
yeah....i want on that action too! i'll even give you better odds.....say less than 30 out of the first 50....

i'd go with the under on 7 of 10 exiting the polls at a presidential election....
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:52 PM   #18
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I have a prediction that either Hillary or Obama get the vote to lead the democrats against Guiliani. Hilary might just get there. Vote on...
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:15 PM   #19
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... Guiliani ...
Can't win the primary. Social conservatives won't matter much in the general, but they own the Republic primary process.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:25 PM   #20
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Any conversation about politics that starts with the presumption of the stupidity of the masses will inevitably lead to some very scary conclusions. After all, if the wisdom of the few exceeds the wisdom of the many, then don't we few wise ones have an obligation to enact our wise plans, for the benefit of those foolish masses?
I didn't say that the masses are stupid. I said that only a minority of voters actually vote. I guess the majority does vote, by abdication.

That is what I meant to start the conversation with.
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:38 AM   #21
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sorry joe, I wasn't responding directly to what you said, just comment on the general tenor of conversations about politics that begin by lamenting how few people do "the right thing" when it comes to casting their vote.
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Old 12-21-2007, 06:10 PM   #22
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But, but, but, I'm sure everyone that doesn't vote the way I do, is a moron that's not paying attention, or has an evil, subversive agenda.
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:26 PM   #23
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And thus, must be protected from their own ignorance by me and my wise friends making their most important choices for them. It's in their best interest!
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Old 12-23-2007, 06:58 AM   #24
TheMercenary
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Well according to one source in the 2000 election

Quote:
Voting age population (Census Bureau Population Survey for Nov. 2000): 205,815,000
Percentage of voting age population casting a vote for president: 51.3%
So technically a majority of the population did vote. But I think we can all agree that more than 51% are bitching about the result.
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:25 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by regular.joe View Post
I didn't say that the masses are stupid. I said that only a minority of voters actually vote. I guess the majority does vote, by abdication.

That is what I meant to start the conversation with.
The masses aren't stupid, but they are inundated with stupidity from the mass media. It isn't just the Brittany Spears news that's distracting them, it's also the rest of the media, including network news, news magazines like Newsweek and Time, and most newspapers. Unfortunately, the media think that negative whiny news sells. Maybe it does, but it doesn't mean positive stories about America or Americans belong on page 23, while minor scandals belong on the front page, so to speak, above the fold.
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Old 12-25-2007, 01:04 PM   #26
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I've been recently thinking that the American people are much more informed than many think, just that we are too cyncial to show it.
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by spudcon View Post
The masses aren't stupid, but they are inundated with stupidity from the mass media. It isn't just the Brittany Spears news that's distracting them, it's also the rest of the media, including network news, news magazines like Newsweek and Time, and most newspapers. Unfortunately, the media think that negative whiny news sells. Maybe it does, but it doesn't mean positive stories about America or Americans belong on page 23, while minor scandals belong on the front page, so to speak, above the fold.
If what is in the mass media didn't make a profit, it would not sell. The masses control what is printed or put on the tv, and other places in the mass media market with their dollars. It's not the "media" fault It's our own.
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Old 12-25-2007, 06:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by regular.joe View Post
If what is in the mass media didn't make a profit, it would not sell. The masses control what is printed or put on the tv, and other places in the mass media market with their dollars. It's not the "media" fault It's our own.
I partly disagree. I believe there are three forces which dictate what will be on the news.

First, what you pointed out, the natural market.

Second, the media's agenda. There is a clear difference between the agenda's of CNN and FOXNEWS so we can't say that the media's agenda does not play a role in this. The American people do have a major role in it, but the media companies are to blame as well.

Third, the government has to some filitering system. I am not talking about conspiracy theories here but there has to be some single source where all the media gets there information from and to think that the government doesn't filter or alter some infromation is very tough to believe since they have their own agenda as well.
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:36 PM   #29
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Pssst pierce - everyone has an agenda, Thats the grand conspiracy. Selfishness. Everyone is doing what makes them the most money or gives them the most power. There are VERY FEW who are not. I'd bet none of them are in Gov't or the media.
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Old 12-25-2007, 11:20 PM   #30
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classic, there are many public servants in the employ of the Government who are incredibly selfless. They aren't doing what they do for the money.
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