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Old 05-01-2006, 09:58 PM   #1
Bullitt
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Immigration

I'm surprised there is no thread yet on the walk-outs today by many immigrants, legal and illegal.
I'd like to hear your guys' opinions and takes on this issue. Being origionally from the southern Cali area, I pay much attention to the local politics and issues.
Do ya'll think all immigrants legal and illegal should get full amnesty? A new system of citizenship? Pay back taxes for the work they have done here in the US? Other?
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:07 PM   #2
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Full amnesty, or at least easier legal-status-gettin' for those already here. And everyone who wants to come here to work and make better lives for themselves should be allowed work permits, with a direct, simple process for becoming documented citizens.
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:18 PM   #3
MaggieL
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If you catch a burglar in your living room, you might as well give him all your stuff. After all, he's already there, and he must be too poor to buy his own. All he wants is a better life for himself and his family.
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Old 05-01-2006, 10:20 PM   #4
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Only if all other criminals get full amnesty.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:17 AM   #5
tw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieL
If you catch a burglar in your living room, you might as well give him all your stuff. After all, he's already there, and he must be too poor to buy his own. All he wants is a better life for himself and his family.
Tell that to Rush Limbaugh who did the crime, does no time, AND ends up with no criminal record. The same man who insists "Do the crime, then do the time" will do no time and has no record of being a drug felon and money launder.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecuracao
Full amnesty, or at least easier legal-status-gettin' for those already here.
And still the basic problem remains. And still not one useful solution is suggested. And still the reason for the problem is ignored. What kind of solution is that? One created by a Congressional compromise?

Once immigrants could come to America on days notice. Now an immigrant must spend years just to get a visa. We solved the problem all right. Using MBA concepts also advocated by a certain American president, we added more layers of bureaucracy. Then we added more unreadable forms and more laws so that even immigrants need lawyers. Yeph. Problems solved.
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:07 AM   #7
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The difference is largely based on how our system has changed in the meantime. Back then, if you wanted to come here you did, and either swam or sunk. Now they claim to have the right to my money in the form of healthcare, education, and housing.
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Old 05-02-2006, 09:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw
Tell that to Rush Limbaugh who did the crime, does no time, AND ends up with no criminal record. The same man who insists "Do the crime, then do the time" will do no time and has no record of being a drug felon and money launder.
I thought our system of justice was "innocent until proven guilty". That's one of the myriad rights and privileges available to citizens of this country.

Not illegals.

Why should those who choose to come into this country through legal means be shoved to the back of the line by a group of people who decided to force their way in illegally and then demand rights and support from the system?

(Hint: the correct answer is, "They shouldn't.")
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Old 05-02-2006, 09:44 AM   #9
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The only real solution is to start imprisoning the Americans who employ them. Take away the incentive of jobs and all the free perks, and they won't come anymore. Any illegals in America, regardless of their numbers, should be deported and Mexico forced to pay the cost. NO AMNESTY EVER.

None of Mexico's resources go to help their own poor; all that lines the pockets of Presidente Fox and his cronies.
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Old 05-02-2006, 09:54 AM   #10
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I'm totally behind that.

There was a guy on the radio yesterday who suggested that an employer who hires illegals should be deported to the country where the worker came from.

I'd be totally behind that, too.
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:17 AM   #11
MaggieL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw
Tell that to Rush Limbaugh who did the crime, does no time, AND ends up with no criminal record. The same man who insists "Do the crime, then do the time" will do no time and has no record of being a drug felon and money launder.
Nice red herring.

Like most plea bargains, that one was created on the judgement of the prosecuting authority. I'd have no problem with Limbaugh doing time, inasmuch as he did the crime. Apparently the DA involved thinks this is better use of his resources.

I'm essentially with Jordon on the actual topic of this thread (although I think the chances of "forcing" the Mexican government to do anything in particular fall somewhere between "slim" and "none") Restrict the availability of illegal jobs and the illegal aliens will find their way home, we don't need to deport anyone.
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:22 AM   #12
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So, did anyone notice any disruptions yesterday during the walkout? I have a feeling this is going to backfire on the protestors, as I don't think anything major came about because of their actions.

...and why do we suddenly care so much about this, anyways? It is not as though illegal immigrants are anything new to this country in recent months or anything. What the hell?
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Old 05-02-2006, 10:57 AM   #13
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Was it here that I read that the Mexican Government is extremely strict on people crossing their southern borders, but then protest that we're being 'racist' against Mexicans when they cross ours?

Personally, if amnesty is granted to illegals that are currently in the country (which if I recall correctly, is a Felony), I want my own 'get out of jail free' card for my own Felony. Heck, I was born here, that should be my right too.
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Old 05-02-2006, 11:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune
So, did anyone notice any disruptions yesterday during the walkout? I have a feeling this is going to backfire on the protestors, as I don't think anything major came about because of their actions.
I honestly didn't notice a thing. I forgot it was even the day until the next morning when I heard some news about it on the radio.

When they had the big demonstrations a few weeks ago, there was MUCH more of an impact. At least where I was.
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Old 05-02-2006, 11:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagney
Was it here that I read that the Mexican Government is extremely strict on people crossing their southern borders, but then protest that we're being 'racist' against Mexicans when they cross ours?

Personally, if amnesty is granted to illegals that are currently in the country (which if I recall correctly, is a Felony), I want my own 'get out of jail free' card for my own Felony. Heck, I was born here, that should be my right too.
I posted this in another thread, with the statement that we should make a deal with Mr. Fox... we treat our Southern border & illegals like he treats his.

Quote:
Mexico Harsh to Undocumented Migrants
http://tinyurl.com/f88y2
By MARK STEVENSON, Associated Press Writer
Tue Apr 18, 6:08 PM ET

TULTITLAN, Mexico - Considered felons by the government, these migrants fear detention, rape and robbery. Police and soldiers hunt them down at railroads, bus stations and fleabag hotels. Sometimes they are deported; more often officers simply take their money.

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While migrants in the United States have held huge demonstrations in recent weeks, the hundreds of thousands of undocumented Central Americans in Mexico suffer mostly in silence.

And though Mexico demands humane treatment for its citizens who migrate to the U.S., regardless of their legal status, Mexico provides few protections for migrants on its own soil. The issue simply isn't on the country's political agenda, perhaps because migrants make up only 0.5 percent of the population, or about 500,000 people compared with 12 percent in the United States.

The level of brutality Central American migrants face in Mexico was apparent Monday, when police conducting a raid for undocumented migrants near a rail yard outside Mexico City shot to death a local man, apparently because his dark skin and work clothes made officers think he was a migrant.

Virginia Sanchez, who lives near the railroad tracks that carry Central Americans north to the U.S. border, said such shootings in Tultitlan are common.

"At night, you hear the gunshots, and it's the judiciales (state police) chasing the migrants," she said. "It's not fair to kill these people. It's not fair in the United States and it's not fair here."

Undocumented Central American migrants complain much more about how they are treated by Mexican officials than about authorities on the U.S. side of the border, where migrants may resent being caught but often praise the professionalism of the agents scouring the desert for their trail.

"If you're carrying any money, they take it from you federal, state, local police, all of them," said Carlos Lopez, a 28-year-old farmhand from Guatemala crouching in a field near the tracks in Tultitlan, waiting to climb onto a northbound freight train.

Lopez said he had been shaken down repeatedly in 15 days of traveling through Mexico.

"The soldiers were there as soon as we crossed the river," he said. "They said, 'You can't cross ... unless you leave something for us.'"

Jose Ramos, 18, of El Salvador, said the extortion occurs at every stop in Mexico, until migrants are left penniless and begging for food.

"If you're on a bus, they pull you off and search your pockets and if you have any money, they keep it and say, 'Get out of here,'" Ramos said.

Maria Elena Gonzalez, who lives near the tracks, said female migrants often complain about abusive police.

"They force them to strip, supposedly to search them, but the purpose is to sexually abuse them," she said.

Others said they had seen migrants beaten to death by police, their bodies left near the railway tracks to make it look as if they had fallen from a train.

The Mexican government acknowledges that many federal, state and local officials are on the take from the people-smugglers who move hundreds of thousands of Central Americans north, and that migrants are particularly vulnerable to abuse by corrupt police.

The National Human Rights Commission, a government-funded agency, documented the abuses south of the U.S. border in a December report.

"One of the saddest national failings on immigration issues is the contradiction in demanding that the North respect migrants' rights, which we are not capable of guaranteeing in the South," commission president Jose Luis Soberanes said.

In the United States, mostly Mexican immigrants have staged rallies pressuring Congress to grant amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants rather than making them felons and deputizing police to deport them. The Mexican government has spoken out in support of the immigrants' cause.

While Interior Secretary Carlos Abascal said Monday that "Mexico is a country with a clear, defined and generous policy toward migrants," the nation of 105 million has legalized only 15,000 immigrants in the past five years, and many undocumented migrants who are detained are deported.

Although Mexico objects to U.S. authorities detaining Mexican immigrants, police and soldiers usually cause the most trouble for migrants in Mexico, even though they aren't technically authorized to enforce immigration laws.

And while Mexicans denounce the criminalization of their citizens living without papers in the United States, Mexican law classifies undocumented immigration as a felony punishable by up to two years in prison, although deportation is more common.

The number of undocumented migrants detained in Mexico almost doubled from 138,061 in 2002 to 240,269 last year. Forty-two percent were Guatemalan, 33 percent Honduran and most of the rest Salvadoran.

Like the United States, Mexico is becoming reliant on immigrant labor. Last year, then-director of Mexico's immigration agency, Magdalena Carral, said an increasing number of Central Americans were staying in Mexico, rather than just passing through on their way to the U.S.

She said sectors of the Mexican economy facing labor shortages often use undocumented workers because the legal process for work visas is inefficient.

Last edited by rkzenrage; 05-02-2006 at 11:30 AM.
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