The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Nothingland

Nothingland Something about nothing - game threads, diversions, time-wasters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-22-2009, 01:50 AM   #16
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Her point, and mine, is puppy mills have nothing to do with hobby breeders or pet owners in general.... except pet owners provide a market for the pet stores that the puppy mills supply.
So these draconian regulations they are proposing have huge unintended consequences on the other 98% of the people that breed, or even own, dogs.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 01:53 AM   #17
Pico and ME
Are you knock-kneed?
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Middle Hoosierland
Posts: 3,549
If these 'Draconian ' measures actually end up protecting the animals, then Im all for it. Hobby breeders be damned.
Pico and ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 01:54 AM   #18
Undertoad
Radical Centrist
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cottage of Prussia
Posts: 31,423
I know a little about the dog breeding bi'ness, and a good bit about economics.

What I notice is that quality hobby breeders provide about 10% of the dogs out there, which means they are not setting the market price. I also notice that my local pet store that sells dogs is putting up Puggles at the same price as semi-quality Boston Terriers (of which I know a little, enough to judge the quality of). Hobby breeders aren't setting the price of Puggles, so there must be something else afoot.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 01:57 AM   #19
Pico and ME
Are you knock-kneed?
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Middle Hoosierland
Posts: 3,549
Then the business of hobby breeders matters not so much, but the puppy mills do, and so taxing them to make them not as profitable is good.
Pico and ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 01:59 AM   #20
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pico and ME View Post
Once a demand for a pricey breed is created, then comes the puppy mills.

Thus, there is a responsibility to the breed.
So the solution is to outlaw every breed except one? Everybody must own the official government mandated breed?

They're is no reason why puppy mills can't be regulated, inspected, or in my opinion outlawed entirely, if they wanted to. But it's easier and cheaper for the lazy fucking politicians to just dump on everyone.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 02:01 AM   #21
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pico and ME View Post
If these 'Draconian ' measures actually end up protecting the animals, then Im all for it. Hobby breeders be damned.
You'd make a great politician.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 02:03 AM   #22
Pico and ME
Are you knock-kneed?
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Middle Hoosierland
Posts: 3,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
So the solution is to outlaw every breed except one? Everybody must own the official government mandated breed?

They're is no reason why puppy mills can't be regulated, inspected, or in my opinion outlawed entirely, if they wanted to. But it's easier and cheaper for the lazy fucking politicians to just dump on everyone.

Bruce, thats where I think you are overreacting. Ultimately, the gobermint wont actually be able to exert the kind of control you are forecasting, but starting the business of control is really important.
Pico and ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 02:13 AM   #23
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Oh sure, we can trust the government... the government is our friend.
You think I'm over reacting because you haven't got a clue how the bureaucracy works.

One thought, puppy mills are bad. OK, we all agree on that, even Nirvana.
But what are we going to do about it?
You say trust the government.
I know better.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 02:18 AM   #24
Pico and ME
Are you knock-kneed?
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Middle Hoosierland
Posts: 3,549
No, Im not really trusting the government, Im trusting the process.
Pico and ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 02:20 AM   #25
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
What process is that, other than the government making laws?
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 02:23 AM   #26
Pico and ME
Are you knock-kneed?
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Middle Hoosierland
Posts: 3,549
The process of people making and adjusting the laws.
Pico and ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 02:59 AM   #27
xoxoxoBruce
The future is unwritten
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 71,105
Oh, the legislators. Of all the state and federal legislators that make these laws, I wonder how many know anything about hobby breeders... or puppy mills except "everyone" knows they are bad? Not many, I'll bet.

So how can they write, or even make an informed decision to vote on a law about it? They have a staff member or more often a professional law writer do it.

This professional writer knows how laws (bills) must be structured so all they have to do is gather the information of what needs to be in the law.
Where do they get this information? Tons and tons of research... or a friendly lobbyist that presents the package all ready to use... no muss, no fuss, quick money plus perks.

But then the law (bill) goes back to the legislator and he checks it out to see that it's what he wanted, right? No, he reads the synopsis the pro law writer provides. No sense in reading the whole thing, it's long, boring and the legislator never understood what should be in it in the first place.

Lots of laws get killed before they come to a vote because it didn't say what the legislator though it was supposed to. If it's a subject that's really contentious, the opposition will pick it apart. But puppy mills?, "everyone" knows they're bad, so no contention there.
That's how unintended consequences get made law, that may or may not be repealed... eventually.

All this was explained to me by a professional law(bill) writer I used to know, and I've seen it in action too damn many times.
__________________
The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.
xoxoxoBruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 05:45 AM   #28
Sundae
polaroid of perfection
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 24,185
Why do I think I walked in half way through a conversation?

My 2 cents anyway.
I was anti pure-bred animals for a long time.
All I could see were dogs that had been bred into fearsome shapes, being bought for a fortune, while other dogs were killed for want of space - unwanted, unloved but dogs nonetheless.

Then I started looking into pedigree cats, because none of the cat homes in Leicester would let me adopt a moggie because I lived on a busy road and wanted to keep it inside. Then I met Diz & Dylan. Okay, they're not as mutated as some pedigree dogs. But their character is a million miles away from any other cat I know. I adore Diz (and still grieve daily over Dylan).

I know this has nothing to do with your conversation, which I assume came about because of some new law in the States. But I got my boys from a responsible breeder, and Diz is the light of my life. I know she made no profit out of the transaction - she was selling them because she'd kept too many cats out of love, and two neutered boys were easier to part with. Would I have paid more for them, to give the Govt a cut? No. I couldn't afford it then or now. Would I gve every penny I have now (okay, that's not much!) to save my boy? Yes.

Keep the Govt out of everything it doesn't need to be in. And that's coming from a socialist living in a fascist regime.
__________________
Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac
Sundae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 11:06 AM   #29
morethanpretty
Thats "Miss Zipper Neck" to you.
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: little town (but not the littlest) in texas
Posts: 2,957
There are not enough responsible hobby breeders, there are way too many puppy mills, or kitten mills. Although I think we probably have less of a problem with purebred kittens/cats. If you go to a flea-market (or trades day), go to the animal section, I bet you 99% of those purebred puppies bein sold, are from puppy mills. This is wrong. Unfortunately people are greedy and consumers are stupid, so they will not regulate themselves in mass. If you don't want the government to step in to protect our animals, then you have to change the society's mindset. That happens alot more slowly than it takes to change laws (which is often too slow of a process as it is). So yes, I am in perfect agreement that sometimes it takes harsh measures to patrol the misbehaving, that also constrain the people who would otherwise behave.
On further note, I do not necessarily agree with the law in PA about only a vet being allowed to kill an animal. At the same time I see its usefullness, if the same situation happens again the law has a recourse to further prosecute the offenders.
__________________
Addicts may suck dick for coke, but love came up with the idea to put a dick in there to begin with.
-Jack O'Brien
morethanpretty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 11:53 AM   #30
DanaC
We have to go back, Kate!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 25,964
Consumers aren't necessarily stupid, they may just be uniformed. My family bought from a kennels that almost certainly used puppy farm breeders for stock. We weren't stupid we just didn't know better at the time.
DanaC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dog


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.