immigration debate tied to globalism

Flint · 04-13-2006, 10:20 AM

Why the sudden interest in cracking down on illegal labor, which is an underpinning of our economy? Because with globalization, it might be cheaper to get those workers back across the border, and into a sweat shop over there, than it is to pay them peanuts over here. It's a simple pocket-book decision. It used to be chaper to keep them here, now it's cheaper to send them back.

Either that, or the invasion of Iran is being planned while the TV-watching public is distracted by this artificially contentious immigration debate.

Kitsune · 04-13-2006, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Because with globalization, it might be cheaper to get those workers back across the border, and into a sweat shop over there, than it is to pay them peanuts over here.

I think it is actually cheaper to keep them here rather than spend the money to maintain the border with guards and fund the authorities that would round up the current illegals and send them home. If unfunded, it's massive misuse of important law enforcement officials. Perhaps the taxpayers would be willing to part with millions to both keep cheap labor out as well as deport the current workers?

...and what would happen, exactly, if we did away with this cheap source of labor? What if farms had to pay people minimum wage to pick produce? Would you be willing to fork over enough money each week for the difference it will cost you in food and services?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Either that, or the invasion of Iran is being planned while the TV-watching public is distracted by this artificially contentious immigration debate.

Well, I'm not sure about that, but this certainly is a distraction. Why are we suddenly concerned now? Why are only the workers being debated and not the companies that both entice them here and hire them?

Yep. All politics with a thin streak of racism. Nothing more.

Flint · 04-13-2006, 11:05 AM

I'm just trying to get inside the head of whoever is behind this.

Cyclefrance · 04-13-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Why the sudden interest in cracking down on illegal labor, which is an underpinning of our economy? Because with globalization, it might be cheaper to get those workers back across the border, and into a sweat shop over there, than it is to pay them peanuts over here. It's a simple pocket-book decision. It used to be chaper to keep them here, now it's cheaper to send them back.

Either that, or the invasion of Iran is being planned while the TV-watching public is distracted by this artificially contentious immigration debate.

If politics in the US is anything like it is here, then the government conducts regular exercises to see which are the key domestic issues in those regions of the country where they have a marginal majority. Rather than spend a disproportionate amount of time on domestic politics (cynically, it's better financially and benefit-wise to have the opportunity to involve yourself as a politician in global issues with the opportunity for travel and the like), it's more attractive to turn attention to the domestic scene only when it's really necessary, and the issues addressed are judged according to their relative voter value.

Illegal immigration must be climbing up the table as an issue, and so it is warranting attention, but most probably the effort is being made where it is projected to generate the most return.

Sure it can act as a smoke screen but generally, over here, it's the big issues like Iran and terrorism that are used as the smokescreen to conceal such things as a poor set of government figures or the introduction of a stealth tax. Burying bad news behind bigger stories is a favourite pastime of our current government, and they have been brought to task over the times they do this more often than we'd prefer to remember.

Oh, and the reason they don't go after the companies can be manyfold. For one this activity iaiming to solve illegal immigration is probably all rhetoric anyway, with no cohesive or worthwhile plan being considered that would make a difference, and second going after the employers can prove costly and involve the courts big-time plus, of course, in a lot of cases, those employers may be financial supporters of the governement - you don't want to go and bite the hand that feeds you

xoxoxoBruce · 04-13-2006, 07:56 PM

Actually one of the key points in the current proposals making it tough on people(companies) that hire illegals.

Flint · 04-13-2006, 07:57 PM

nevermind

Flint · 04-13-2006, 08:03 PM

:::CBOL:::@Griff

Griff · 04-13-2006, 08:05 PM

The Department of Homeland Security has impounded this thread until further notice. Please go about your business.

tw · 04-13-2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Why the sudden interest in cracking down on illegal labor, which is an underpinning of our economy?

Enemies are everywhere. That is what fear of immigrants is all about. Same recently occurred in the IEEE Conference in Orlando on IEEE 802.11i where WAPI was being discussed. From EE Times of 17 Mar 2006 WAPI battle exposes technology rifts with China is this - but a small segment - that demonstrates even why technology is slowly forced to leave the US. These guys are terrorists? Yes when your government sees enemies everywhere:

Quote:

... put the specification up for consideration at an ISO meeting in Orlando, Fla., in November 2004. At the same meeting, IEEE's 802.11i was also submitted. A few days before the Orlando meeting, three of five Chinese representatives were denied U.S. visas

Clearly those Chinese experts were terrorists. Welcome to an America that once was honest and that now even wants to impose passports on Canadians. The only thing we have to fear is George Jr and his religious supporters who advocate hate.

Americans forget where so much American technology and innovation comes from. Hitler literally wiped Europe clean of the best in science in technology. Hilbert (a mathematician of great significance) was asked by his Nazi party supervisor how was the state of mathematics. Hilbert was honest. It was destroyed. Where did they all go? America where people did not see enemies hiding everywhere.

What happens to stem cell research, environmental research, quantum physics, genetics, so many sciences depending upon space technology, etc? Moving overseas because - well this reason is so obvious in so many little sentences now in so many technical reports. That above example is appearing too often. The president and his people are political extremists AND want to impose religion on all others. Best to view THEM immigrants as evil. In reality immigrants are (as history demonstrates everywhere in the world) a most critical resource to every nation. But to extremists, those immigrants are considered an expense - classic MBA thinking.

Those who see a mythical Al Qaeda everywhere and who view science as an enemy of god would never understand.

No wonder it can take up to 10 years for legal immigration. Did you try to decypher government forms for immigrants? Every form requires, at minimum, $200 for a lawyer to fill out. Don't try it yourself. You will end up being deported. Those forms all but intentionally use multiple nouns to describe the same thing - that only a lawyer would love. No problem. Immigrants are evil. No sense making legal immigration reasonable. Better to encourage illegals. Don't take my word for it. Ask a legal immigrant how much he spends (wastes) on lawyers.

We fear. Simple as that. Orange alerts to promote George Jr popularity - and again we fear. It's happens when your leaders have extremist agendas and want to fix the world. We fear where once we had friends.

Griff · 04-14-2006, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

No wonder it can take up to 10 years for legal immigration. Did you try to decypher government forms for immigrants? Every form requires, at minimum, $200 for a lawyer to fill out. Don't try it yourself. You will end up being deported. Those forms all but intentionally use multiple nouns to describe the same thing - that only a lawyer would love. No problem. Immigrants are evil. No sense making legal immigration reasonable. Better to encourage illegals. Don't take my word for it. Ask a legal immigrant how much he spends (wastes) on lawyers.

My brother is going to do an immigrant law internship this summer,... horror stories to follow.

Kitsune · 04-14-2006, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

No wonder it can take up to 10 years for legal immigration. Did you try to decypher government forms for immigrants? Every form requires, at minimum, $200 for a lawyer to fill out.

You're not kidding on this one. I have a friend from Finland who is here on an H1B and he allocates ~$10k/year for lawyer and government fees as he attempts to get his green card. The resources required are out of the range of most potential immigrants.

Citizenship? Not worth it, he notes, as he would have to renounce his dual German/Finnish citizenship. The benefits of both in terms of healthcare and unemployment outweigh anything the US could offer.

Cyclefrance · 04-14-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Actually one of the key points in the current proposals making it tough on people(companies) that hire illegals.

Of course, that could just be feelgood rhetoric. Happens a lot here. Government makes big voter-pleasing statement, tasks authorities with the job (may even bring in lukewarm legislation) then fails to provide the funding/resources to see the job having even half a chance to be done. One of our favourites is government's 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime' - criminal activity statistics, public opinion, and even police continue to show the situation is the opposite...

Kitsune · 04-15-2006, 11:48 AM

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

...soon to be replaced with a glowing neon No Vacancy.

xoxoxoBruce · 04-16-2006, 01:52 AM

No vacancy because the whole damn world wants to move here. We don't have room for them all. So if you throw open the gates, we'll soon be full and the no vacancy sign will have to go up eventually anyway.

04-13-2006, 10:20 AM	#1
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	immigration debate tied to globalism Why the sudden interest in cracking down on illegal labor, which is an underpinning of our economy? Because with globalization, it might be cheaper to get those workers back across the border, and into a sweat shop over there, than it is to pay them peanuts over here. It's a simple pocket-book decision. It used to be chaper to keep them here, now it's cheaper to send them back. Either that, or the invasion of Iran is being planned while the TV-watching public is distracted by this artificially contentious immigration debate. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-13-2006, 11:05 AM	#3
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I'm just trying to get inside the head of whoever is behind this. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-13-2006, 07:56 PM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Actually one of the key points in the current proposals making it tough on people(companies) that hire illegals. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

04-13-2006, 07:57 PM	#6
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	nevermind __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio** Last edited by Flint; 04-13-2006 at 08:04 PM.

04-13-2006, 08:03 PM	#7
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	:::CBOL:::@Griff __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio** Last edited by Flint; 04-13-2006 at 08:06 PM.

04-13-2006, 08:05 PM	#8
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	The Department of Homeland Security has impounded this thread until further notice. Please go about your business. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

04-15-2006, 11:48 AM	#13
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! ...soon to be replaced with a glowing neon No Vacancy.

04-16-2006, 01:52 AM	#14
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	No vacancy because the whole damn world wants to move here. We don't have room for them all. So if you throw open the gates, we'll soon be full and the no vacancy sign will have to go up eventually anyway. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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