Chimps Screaming At Thunder

Either that or they want people to suffer.

Congress, White House on collision course over stem cells

[xoxoxoBruce]

In an emotional session marked by tales of death and hope, the Senate debated on Monday whether the government should pay for new embryonic stem cell research, pushing a measure to do it toward passage and President Bush's first veto.

I'm less concerned about whether the government pays for stem cell research than I am about the government blocking it.

[Elspode]

Another dog and pony show. It took bipartisan Senate votes to get the bill to Dubya, and *everyone* knew he would veto it. This way, people get to play both sides of the issue.

I'm so glad that other people know what's good for me. I'm too stupid to be allowed to make decisions on my own. Good is Evil! Right is Wrong! 2+2 is 5!

[BigV]

I find a serious disconnect between the statements by you, Mr President, ''This bill would support the taking of innocent human life in the hope of finding medical benefits for others,'' Bush said at the White House, flanked by families with children who had been adopted as frozen embryos. ''It crosses a moral boundary that our decent society needs to respect.'' and the lack of action to enforce that stated position. You're opposed to permitting tax dollars to be spent to study more stem cell lines. As to the "loss of life", there was no urgent call to action to prevent the currently legal disposition of these embryos by discarding as medical waste*. Where's the outrage there?

So, Mr President, if you're bothered by the cost issues, say so. That's what you vetoed yesterday. The bill to resume federal subsidies on embryonic stem cell research. Have you become fiscally conservative? You pontificated and justified your decision as protecting human life, but your actions betray your words. You've shown no action to support your words. Others may be distracted by your rhetoric, but I will judge you by your actions, and to this point, I see a vast gulf between what you say and what you do. You are a hypocrite.

This is not a simple issue. Both sides have strong support, and compelling evidence in favor of their conclusions. But to oversimplify the issue the way you have does everyone a disservice. And to refuse to learn more is the most backward, ignorant and conceited attitude possible. You rob from the very generation you claim to protect when you fail to promote learning. Those future generations would benefit from an increased understanding today. Certainly you don't think we're at the pinnacle of understanding, knowledge and wisdom, do you? Certainly you don't believe there's nothing left to learn. I can't believe that. And yet you block attempts to further that learning. Talk about a waste.

You exacerbate the tragedy by compounding the medical waste with wasted opportunities to learn, and then insult me by saying it's a money issue. Let them "die", but don't spend any money to learn from that death. This veto was a sad mistake, Mr President.

*

What are my options for using the embryos?

We hope that most couples will be able to use the embryos to have a healthy baby. Patients having frozen embryos transferred, make up about one fourth of the patients visiting our office. Some are thawing embryos after failing to become pregnant during their IVF cycle, and some are using the embryos years after a successful IVF cycle, to have a second or third child.

You may be surprised to learn that there are a significant number of people who do not want to use their frozen embryos to become pregnant. These are typically people that have completed their families and are not interested in having any more children. Having embryos remaining creates a very difficult situation for these families. The embryos can be discarded as medical waste, but the decision to destroy the embryos is not made easily. Couples with children resulting from IVF treatment often view the frozen embryos as potential children and siblings for their existing children. Coming to terms with destroying the embryos can be impossible, and many couples avoid taking this decision by simply leaving the embryos frozen indefinitely. In the UK, the government has taken action against these couples by ordering the destruction of all embryos in frozen storage for more than 5 years.

Frozen embryos can also be donated for research studies. Embryos donated for research will be thawed and used in a scientific study, and discarded after a few days. A research study might look at new ways of freezing or thawing embryos, new ways of growing embryos in the laboratory or at the genetic make up of the embryos. The studies will not benefit the patient that donates the embryos, but the research may benefit other IVF couples in the future.

How are embryos destroyed when patients request disposition?

A formal request to destroy the embryos must be received in writing from the patients. The request must be signed by both partners and notarized or witnessed by a member of our staff. Once the laboratory has received the disposition notice no action is taken for 30 days. This gives the couple a cooling off period and an opportunity to change their decision.

When the 30-day waiting period has passed, two Embryologists take responsibility for carrying out the patients' wishes. They fill out a form indicating that they have checked the disposition request and are in agreement that the patient wants the embryos discarded. They locate the embryos in the storage tank and double check the identity with the paperwork. The embryos are then thawed and discarded as medical waste. The paperwork is complete when both embryologists sign, attesting that they performed and witnessed the destruction according to the patients' wishes. The paperwork is kept in the laboratory files and a copy filed in the medical record of the patient.

[Elspode]

This isn't about money *or* human life. The profligate war spending and body count should prove this out. This is about pandering to a voting bloc and pushing an agenda. It couldn't be more transparent if it the veto had been written on Saran Wrap.

[BigV]

Yes, Elspode, I agree with you. I'm calling him on it. Dammit, be a man, be a leader. Tell the stinkin' truth. Do what you say. I expect more of my leaders, and I am disappointed and angry.