Watching The Snowball

Pangloss62 · 10-22-2006, 08:48 AM

The "November Surprise" that may actually occur in October will be a Rove-constructed, rhetorical reorientation for W. Presently, God's Own Party is watching a snowball roll downhill, but soon all will be on the same page as Rove will appropriate the Democratic criticism of the Iraq War and turn it to W's advantage. Bush will present himself as someone who is willing to think on his feat, make changes (what the Dems suggested, and what the neocons said was "cut and run"), and change the course rather than "stay the course." Expect some bold speech from our leader that will pull the rug out from under the Dems, even using some of their few suggestions on how to deal with Iraq. Bush will appease his own' party's critics with Rovian rhetoric and W's base will say "Wow! He's finally listening to us," and will concomitantly return to the fold. The Democrats, who have done more complaining than really present a viable strategy for Iraq, will be caught standing with their collective pants down.

Of course, the above is a BCS, and it may end up as too little too late, but W. et al can not keep watching that snowball without doing anything. Or, considering his apparent inability to admit that he and his advisors were wrong a long time ago (if even to himself), perhaps we'll all get to watch that snowball keep gathering speed and more snow. Perhaps today's talking heads shows will reveal something.

tw · 10-22-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

... but W. et al can not keep watching that snowball without doing anything.

Apparently Iraqis have been suggested the plan for America's withdrawal. Maliki is said to be worried because government forces have no teeth and Iraq has never been so violent - and getting more violent.

Of course, the trick is to spin it as a withdrawal - not a defeat. That military defeat must be conducted similar to an American withdrawal from Vietnam - the other American defeat also directly traceable to Presidential lies. James Baker has repeatedly hinted that withdrawal will be his commission's recommendation to the White House. That recommendation is scheduled for release after November elections. Interesting will be if George Jr has it released or leaked before those elections.

Reality remains - without 500,000 troops for one year, then "Mission Accomplished" cannot be won and will only get worse. Why? Exasperated because we are there. Predicted more than 3 years ago by American actions that repeatedly violated Military Science 101 principles.

tw · 10-22-2006, 07:15 PM

Andy Rooney of CBS News (a legendary TV news magazine) 60 Minutes has just said "we should have never gone and we should get out" ... if I have quoted him accurately from memory. Is this akin to Walter Cronkite who went to Vietnam and said the war is lost? Well another lying president (Nixon) massacred 35,000 of America's best in Vietnam only because Nixon and his agenda were more important than America.

Even Walter Cronkite told America an obvious fact. And yet, 'big dics' back then still kept massacring Americans in a war that could never be won and that was created by political lies. Deja Vue?

10-22-2006, 07:55 PM

In order for Jr. to engage in the scenario outlined in the OP, he would (gasp!) have to listen to his advisors. Never say, never, but suppose Jr. and the 'Pubs did carry out this last minute campaign strategy (and last minute it will be, November is almost upon us). Do you really think Jr. would keep his word? If you do, you should be locked up in one of those nice places where they take every such good care of you and your relatives visit (or don't) on Sundays.

If tricky George tries that tactic and doesn't come through on his word, the only thing that will save the Republican party in '08 is Diebold.

Clodfobble · 10-22-2006, 08:19 PM

tw, did you seriously just try to equate Walter Cronkite with Andy-fucking-Rooney? If Bozo the Clown said the Iraq war was bad, would he suddenly become a respected statesman too?

Pangloss62 · 10-22-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

the only thing that will save the Republican party in '08 is Diebold.

That is not onlyOrwellian, but likely true. The last time I voted here in GA, I said, sarcastically, "Can I have a receipt for my vote?" They said "No." I then said "Why not?" and the dude said "We're not allowed to say." Holy F*&^%!

Aliantha · 10-22-2006, 09:03 PM

Is that anything like 'chicken surprise'?

Flint · 10-23-2006, 09:09 AM

It's difficult, in the realm of political posturing, to disagree just the right amount with entrenched psychological ploys. If you hedge your bets, your position isn't really an alternative, IE John "I'm running against Bush but we pretty much agree on everything" Kerry.

If you're afraid to go out on a limb, that's where you'll probably end up.

The Republicans are much better at "framing" the issues...

Undertoad · 10-23-2006, 09:18 AM

The Hollywood cocktail party crowd is so certain the fix is in, they're planning to send their chauffeurs to the rallies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyn Davis Lear in HuffPost

When I asked Gore Vidal at dinner why the White House seemed so serene and at ease about the vote, he replied that, this time around, the Bush-Cheney henchmen could simply call on martial law. He glumly noted that we are so far down the road toward totalitarianism that, even if Democrats do win back the Congress, it would take at least two generations before the last six years of damage to the nation could be reversed. Gore frankly despaired that any amount of time could ever return the country to where and what it previously was. This prediction left me reaching for some Fernet Branca.

...the White House's freakish calm about the elections makes me as nervous as the hell we seem to be headed for. Therefore we should all be on alert. If for whatever reason we don't win back Congress in November the only real answer will be to take to the streets.

Gore Vidal will be armed and dangerous with a broken Ketel One bottle in one hand and a plastic sword of speared olives in the other. Avoid Beverly Hills if the Republicans win.

Flint · 10-23-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

If for whatever reason we don't win back Congress in November the only real answer will be to take to the streets.

Can you even say things like this anymore? Doesn't this make you some kind of non-human combatant? Seriously...how vague is that new law?

Spexxvet · 10-23-2006, 09:28 AM

Four years after the entire intelligent world knew, Shrub has admitted to similarities between Viet Nam and Iraq, and has begun the process of setting a timetable for withdrawl.

A - Why did everyone else know before this administration?
B - Did this administration know, but lied?
C - Is the Cheney adminstration now leading the "party of cut and run"?
D - Is this the type of waffling that this administration criticized Kerry of, during the last presidential election?

Undertoad · 10-23-2006, 09:49 AM

E - Is that the "Rove-constructed, rhetorical reorientation" Pangloss mentioned?

Happy Monkey · 10-23-2006, 09:59 AM

Well, hey, listen. Bush has never been "stay the course"!

Flint · 10-23-2006, 10:06 AM

BUSH: We will stay the course. [8/30/06]

BUSH: We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq. [8/4/05]

BUSH: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a timetable on the definition of getting the job done. We’re just going to stay the course. [12/15/03]

BUSH: And my message today to those in Iraq is: We’ll stay the course. [4/13/04]

BUSH: And that’s why we’re going to stay the course in Iraq. And that’s why when we say something in Iraq, we’re going to do it. [4/16/04]

BUSH: And so we’ve got tough action in Iraq. But we will stay the course. [4/5/04]

Spexxvet · 10-23-2006, 10:33 AM

Sure, and

"I am not a crook"
and
"I did not have sex with that woman"

What a fucking LIAR!

10-22-2006, 08:48 AM	#1
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	Watching The Snowball The "November Surprise" that may actually occur in October will be a Rove-constructed, rhetorical reorientation for W. Presently, God's Own Party is watching a snowball roll downhill, but soon all will be on the same page as Rove will appropriate the Democratic criticism of the Iraq War and turn it to W's advantage. Bush will present himself as someone who is willing to think on his feat, make changes (what the Dems suggested, and what the neocons said was "cut and run"), and change the course rather than "stay the course." Expect some bold speech from our leader that will pull the rug out from under the Dems, even using some of their few suggestions on how to deal with Iraq. Bush will appease his own' party's critics with Rovian rhetoric and W's base will say "Wow! He's finally listening to us," and will concomitantly return to the fold. The Democrats, who have done more complaining than really present a viable strategy for Iraq, will be caught standing with their collective pants down. Of course, the above is a BCS, and it may end up as too little too late, but W. et al can not keep watching that snowball without doing anything. Or, considering his apparent inability to admit that he and his advisors were wrong a long time ago (if even to himself), perhaps we'll all get to watch that snowball keep gathering speed and more snow. Perhaps today's talking heads shows will reveal something. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

10-22-2006, 09:03 PM	#7
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	Is that anything like 'chicken surprise'? __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

10-23-2006, 09:09 AM	#8
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	It's difficult, in the realm of political posturing, to disagree just the right amount with entrenched psychological ploys. If you hedge your bets, your position isn't really an alternative, IE John "I'm running against Bush but we pretty much agree on everything" Kerry. If you're afraid to go out on a limb, that's where you'll probably end up. The Republicans are much better at "framing" the issues... __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-23-2006, 09:28 AM	#11
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Four years after the entire intelligent world knew, Shrub has admitted to similarities between Viet Nam and Iraq, and has begun the process of setting a timetable for withdrawl. A - Why did everyone else know before this administration? B - Did this administration know, but lied? C - Is the Cheney adminstration now leading the "party of cut and run"? D - Is this the type of waffling that this administration criticized Kerry of, during the last presidential election? __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

10-23-2006, 09:59 AM	#13
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	Well, hey, listen. Bush has never been "stay the course"! __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

10-22-2006, 07:15 PM	#3
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Andy Rooney of CBS News (a legendary TV news magazine) 60 Minutes has just said "we should have never gone and we should get out" ... if I have quoted him accurately from memory. Is this akin to Walter Cronkite who went to Vietnam and said the war is lost? Well another lying president (Nixon) massacred 35,000 of America's best in Vietnam only because Nixon and his agenda were more important than America. Even Walter Cronkite told America an obvious fact. And yet, 'big dics' back then still kept massacring Americans in a war that could never be won and that was created by political lies. Deja Vue?

10-22-2006, 07:55 PM	#4
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	In order for Jr. to engage in the scenario outlined in the OP, he would (gasp!) have to listen to his advisors. Never say, never, but suppose Jr. and the 'Pubs did carry out this last minute campaign strategy (and last minute it will be, November is almost upon us). Do you really think Jr. would keep his word? If you do, you should be locked up in one of those nice places where they take every such good care of you and your relatives visit (or don't) on Sundays. If tricky George tries that tactic and doesn't come through on his word, the only thing that will save the Republican party in '08 is Diebold.

10-22-2006, 08:19 PM	#5
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	tw, did you seriously just try to equate Walter Cronkite with Andy-fucking-Rooney? If Bozo the Clown said the Iraq war was bad, would he suddenly become a respected statesman too?

10-23-2006, 09:49 AM	#12
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	E - Is that the "Rove-constructed, rhetorical reorientation" Pangloss mentioned?

10-23-2006, 10:06 AM	#14
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	:::laugh::: or :::cry::: @ that link ??? BUSH: We will stay the course. [8/30/06] BUSH: We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq. [8/4/05] BUSH: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a timetable on the definition of getting the job done. We’re just going to stay the course. [12/15/03] BUSH: And my message today to those in Iraq is: We’ll stay the course. [4/13/04] BUSH: And that’s why we’re going to stay the course in Iraq. And that’s why when we say something in Iraq, we’re going to do it. [4/16/04] BUSH: And so we’ve got tough action in Iraq. But we will stay the course. [4/5/04] __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

10-23-2006, 10:33 AM	#15
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	Sure, and "I am not a crook" and "I did not have sex with that woman" What a fucking LIAR! __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

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